Crybaby From Hell (Dimebag Wah DB-01) @ 18volts?!

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hello, i've searched on this forums about it, unfortunately no results;

since the Dime Wah db01 uses PCB with mostly smd parts, its quite hard to find out all tolerances by looking at them

it wouldn't hurt to benefit from 18v high headroom, but the pedal is labeled as 9v;

since most of us know that there are many pedals rated for 9v running on 18v with no issues

by any chance the Db-01 is one of them? can i run it with 2 carbon batts on series to provide 18v?

if not, which part is under rated so i can swap for a higher tolerance?

thanks in advice
 
i do not know the fundaments of root mean square signals, but i can tell you the reason for trying to run this pedal on 18v:

i use the wah exclusively after the drive/boost/gain pedals, the wah sounds more ballsy this way.

it is known that feeding devices with more voltages can increase the headroom, such as the small clone chorus or turbo rat pedal, of which i use too

the experience of using pedals with increased headroom is that it have more space for a hotter sinal without mushing out or in technical words saturation

since the gain pedals are set before the wah unit, it gets a hotter input, thus decreasing the quality of whats been amplified

of course, i dont know if the DB-01 is that different from all other wah pedals, but even the 535q (of which i had before) can benefit from doubling the feed from 9v to 18v;

but as i said, even the db01 being close to 535q, they are not the same

and its always better to be safe than sorry, specially in my country where people are hurting for a few bucks, it wouldnt be wise to just wire two 9v carbon batts in series and 'see what happens'

sorry if i lack of technical terms to describe the picture, i hope you understand what i've meant to help all of DB-01 users who someday get to seek this improvement that i am after

thank you
 
Psicopanque,

I can't speak to your specific wah, but wah pedals in general are NOTORIOUSLY unsympathetic to being fed more than 9v. Very easy to destroy them. (Even moreso for reversed polarity.)

Even if you could, it's not the type of circuit that would benefit.

There is a forum online for guys that build their own stompboxes, but I foget the name. You can probably find it fairly quickly. Those guys know EVERYTHING about the subject.
 
In addition to the 9v zener previously mentioned, verify that any and all capacitors are voltage rated to at least 25 volts (they might be as low as 16). If they are not, keep the value in microfarads the same as the originals and replace with 25v or higher caps.

Most all small signal transistors I've seen in musical instrument equipment are voltage rated in the neighborhood of 30v, so they should be okay with the higher voltage. However, make sure you can still order replacements in case there is some kind of circuit quirk that results in you blowing one of them up.

And speaking of blowing things up, the resistors in the circuit shouldn't care one way or the other -- the absolute voltages in question are low enough that you shouldn't have to worry. If you do a cap job with more robust replacements, you're probably free to give it a go.

The one place you could get in trouble (and this is usually a non-destructive thing) is that the increased voltage may cause bias problems with one or more transistors. The symptom would be "Sounds Fine At 9v, Sounds Terrible at 18v". If so, back things down to 9v, make sure things sound okay, and carry on.

If you broke it with the 18v, then replace the failing components so you have a working wah at 9v. Then go on a quest for information about re-biasing transistors when the supply voltage is increased. It's scary stuff if you have zero experience with it, but after redoing a couple messed up gain stages, you'll wonder what all the fuss is about.

Dave
 
My apologies, Cableaddict, if your thought i was trying to contradict or offend you with my post. Your recommendation to research the other forum is still the safest plan of attack. If he does the research and still doesn't find the answer he is seeking, the steps I described are the ones I've used to hot-rod a stomp box or two for increased voltage.

The last boxes I tortured were a couple of Boss compressor stomp boxes. One could take 12v out of the box and the other one got Very Unhappy. I did a cap job on both and now they both run at higher voltage.

Dave
 
thanks u all, but as i said its hard to see the tolerances since some of the caps are SMD as far as i know, the schematics doesnt say anything about the tolerances and i've emailed dunlop with no reply

i understand the advices concerning the inductor, i'll see what i can do... if i find out, then i'll let yall know

thx
 
Psicopanque,

When you look at the SMD caps in question on your board, can you see a letter in the characters printed on each one? I'm guessing that there may be three numbers and one letter. If so, then you might see a set of markings like 104A. If so, then you may have a predictable schema to identify values and voltage ratings. For example, an SMD cap with 104A printed on its surface would be a .1uf rated at 10v dc.

How did I know this? I actually don't know Thing One about SMD technology (so everybody keep me honest here), but I can do a mean google search. I typed "smd capacitor voltage rating" and google performed the following search:

smd capacitor voltage rating - Google Search

The second hit took me to a site page that was filthy with tables that describe how to decipher markings on different cap technologies, including SMD:

Capacitor Codes | Capacitor Markings | Radio-Electronics.Com

About half way down the page is a table that cross references letters in the marking(s) to voltage rating.

NOW.......... (and this is to back up what Cableaddict was trying to say), if you successfully identify the markings on the caps in question and their working voltage is less than 20-25 volts, then you have a decision to make. If you have zero SMD soldering / desoldering experience, then his recommendation was spot on -- it might be more trouble than it's worth for you to learn SMD tech and purchase the tools in order to replace the offending caps with higher values. That would be something that is 100% in your court to decide.

The other thing to consider is that on an SMD board, the likelyhood of finding those standard through-hole transistors I was talking about as the active devices is probably slim to none, so my comment about active devices should be treated as suspect. The safest course would be to identify the active devices (ICs, Op Amps, etc.), look up their manufacturer's spec sheets on the web, and verify they're all happy running above 9v before you add a second battery.

Don't want to scare you off from moving forward with this, because if you research it right, you'll learn a ton about its operation and be a better person for it. But we want to give you as much advance info as possible so you can make smart decisions about where you go from here.

Dave
 
no, dear Dave, you didn't scare me at all, instead, i've felt so happy to see your elaborated reply filled with goodwill and helpful info

thanks so much for your time helping, for sure i'll look into it carefully and then post here the findings, for everyone to benefit from the information

i'll do it within this month, i'm working on the recording of our band songs, its kinda tough now cause we have no PC nor interface/DAC... we just gigged live and recorded a video on android smartphone with stock galaxy microphone (laughs)

after i finish extracting the audio tracks and stuff to make our 11 songs available, then i'll proceed with the DB01 18v issue

i could do it in parallel with the album/songs release, but we are kinda in a tough time here, we have to find another place to go and we've been through some harassment in my town;

i'd wish that we could move from brazil to uruguay to get away from this evil people...

well you kinda got the picture and i just explained the situation to justify the delay on the wah subject that we're all working together on this wonderful forums, so keeping on topic: it might get some time for me to find out the SMD/IC/Fasel inductor tolerances, but for sure it will be done within this month while theres still stability, since i don't know whats coming for us next month and so

thanks so much for your help! soon we will uncover this DB-01 9to18v mystery!

hugs, Guima!
 
alright... sorry for taking long on it:

-the dunlop guys replied my email, they said its not safe to operate on higher voltages such as 18v

-i havent inspected the smd to find out it's tolerances;

since i've achieved better tone results modding a mesa engineering bottle rocket pedal and a blackheart bhhd amp, for now i'll call it a day and settle for a while

maybe when i get extra cash and find a great, trustworthy tech, i'd send him the 'crybaby from hell' to upgrade it to my specs

or turning the dreaming mode on: if someday i manage to become a big rockstar, i'd ask dunlop to change some stuff like adding a third output jack with true bypass, mid boost, mid potentiometer, increased cockness and headroom... y'all know... that stuff :p

now back to real life, i have another question to ask y'all, and i'll also ask dunlop and post here their reply, but the opinions of diy audio forum members are very important and appreciated:

the 'crybaby from hell' claims to have a low impedance, high quality buffer, but is it really good?

(i've tested with my ears, i'd say the signal gets tamed a bit regarding desireable raw imperfections when plugged guitar straight into the amp, but no clarity/dynamics loss when buffered... i've also noticed less volume variation or we can say more even output whichever pickups were selected [when plugged guitar straight into amp, the bridge jb had way more loudness, followed by the neck vintage mini, and when both pickups were selected on parallel there was a noticeable faintness on output... but with the crybaby from hell's buffer, i've found these differences subtle])

even so, its better to discuss here about this buffer;

another question:

the pedal have two outputs, since its buffered, can it be considered 'buffered signal splitter' i mean... can i safely plug both outputs on different tube amps without damaging them or causing signal interference/mixing both?

thanks in advance
 
the dunlop team replied first, so i'll share here what was said:

-the pedal buffer is high quality, MC406, same used on MXR CAE

-it supports stereo splitting (2 amps simultaneously)

-the person who replied me said it has one output thats always buffered and the second output can be set either buffered or unbuffered, then i've asked him if the unbuffered option is true bypass or hardwire, when he replies, then i'll edit this post

hope it helps u all

bb
 
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