hello again, sorry for bringing it up by double posting, i have a final question divided into three minor questions that cannot be answered by the duncan tone stack calculator and i think this idea will ultimately fix all my issues regarding this pedal since all i need is a boost and im too busy finishing the mix/recording of our debut album:
- to completely bypass the whole tone stack, is it wise to connect the pre 220k resistor tone sucker before tone stack straight into the volume pot? (i mean: after the 220k resistor theres the tone stack, but i dont know if after the tone stack theres any more important stages for the pedal or if after the TS theres only the volume/output jack)
- if the answer is yes, the 100k volume pot is ideal or i need a different value?
- concerning that slot for optional 20k mid pot that i've put a fixed resistor with higher resistance to act like a semi-raw allenamps effect, can i remove it if i plan to bypass the entire tone stack (the mid slot isnt on the schematic)
thanks in advance
- to completely bypass the whole tone stack, is it wise to connect the pre 220k resistor tone sucker before tone stack straight into the volume pot? (i mean: after the 220k resistor theres the tone stack, but i dont know if after the tone stack theres any more important stages for the pedal or if after the TS theres only the volume/output jack)
- if the answer is yes, the 100k volume pot is ideal or i need a different value?
- concerning that slot for optional 20k mid pot that i've put a fixed resistor with higher resistance to act like a semi-raw allenamps effect, can i remove it if i plan to bypass the entire tone stack (the mid slot isnt on the schematic)
thanks in advance
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Yes, no problem
It doesn't really matter. The 220k and the 10k pot will be acting as a voltage divider, you have way more signal off the last triode and should be fine.
Sure.
thanks so much!!! i'll stick the 'voltage divider concept' on my 'next things to study' list, since i have no clues about what it is, but for now, knowing that i can bypass the TS this way, should be enough
btw we are about to finish our recordings, made 100% on samsung galaxy j2 smartphone with no audio interface, mic'ed with akai acm80 > blackstar ht dual tube pedal on clean channel > rca to p2 adapter straight into the headset slot in the phone LOL
we are video recording every step and we plan to release a documentary/making of video alongside the 11 songs album
things left: EQ the basslines (recorded with electric guitar tweaked on tone pot/ amplifier eq)
then record the clean guitars and complementary vocals, eq and mix it all and we're set
btw this demo pre release feature a solo using the bottle rocket pedal (is my main device for solos/booster)
the bassline is raw, un eq'd so expect a little of weirdness/ higher volume than the rest of the mix, but meh... i was tired after 16hrs of recording and mixing stuff
youtube link below for the video, hope yall like
YouTube
btw we are about to finish our recordings, made 100% on samsung galaxy j2 smartphone with no audio interface, mic'ed with akai acm80 > blackstar ht dual tube pedal on clean channel > rca to p2 adapter straight into the headset slot in the phone LOL
we are video recording every step and we plan to release a documentary/making of video alongside the 11 songs album
things left: EQ the basslines (recorded with electric guitar tweaked on tone pot/ amplifier eq)
then record the clean guitars and complementary vocals, eq and mix it all and we're set
btw this demo pre release feature a solo using the bottle rocket pedal (is my main device for solos/booster)
the bassline is raw, un eq'd so expect a little of weirdness/ higher volume than the rest of the mix, but meh... i was tired after 16hrs of recording and mixing stuff
youtube link below for the video, hope yall like
YouTube
after finishing the edit/mixes and the release of 5 (out of 11) demo tracks from our band, i've decided to take a breath;
then i've accomplished the 'full tone stack bypass mod'
i dunno why, my android phone is not uploading pics, so i'll try to describe how the bypass was done
*detect the .047 brown chiclet/pillow shaped capacitor closest to the 220k resistor tone sucker placed before the tone stack (looking to the side where the components are seen / where the tube sockets have its pins for the valves to be inserted, is located left to the sucker resistor, south from the v2 tube)
*lift the south lug of this detected .047 capacitor, the south lug is the lug closest to the footswitch and the potentiometers;
*solder a wire or something conductive of your choice from the lifted lug of the capacitor mentioned above to the unused lug of the volume potentiometer (the stock settings of the volume potentiometer had two lugs out of three being connected to the circuit and one free lug, unused)
this mod rendered the Bass and Treble controls unusable, a wide, flatter frequency/EQ and more gain/output, much more;
overall, it was worth it;
then i've unsoldered the 220k resistor piggybacked in the v1 tube biasing section, but i've tested the pedal before doing it, to hear the difference;
with the stock settings for the v1 bias, the sound had more compressed and harsh characteristics, i am seriously considering to remake the lower resistance bias mod suggested by our fellow Printer, but i'll experiment a little more before deciding, even so i'm almost sure that its more suitable for my work to lower the v1 bias resistor values, because it makes the pedal closer to a booster;
with or without the changes in v1 resistor bias, there was an issue bothering me a little: the pedal is useable, and have good output, enough to 'expand' any tube amp instead of mushing out like before, BUT... if i raise too much the gain and volume pots, the amp starts to squeal like an overdriven amp on 10 being pushed by a Proco Rat on 10 with the filter on 0
maybe because the bottle rocket is too powerful now, or the highs need to be tamed a bit, or something else that i dont know, so i ask guidance about this subject;
another question: i've seen the schematics again, and it looks like theres no input resistor (i can be wrong)
in case theres really no input resistor or if theres a low Z input resistor, would there be any benefits if i add one or increase the input resistance? if yes, which value could be optimal in theory?
thanks in advance
-Guima;
then i've accomplished the 'full tone stack bypass mod'
i dunno why, my android phone is not uploading pics, so i'll try to describe how the bypass was done
*detect the .047 brown chiclet/pillow shaped capacitor closest to the 220k resistor tone sucker placed before the tone stack (looking to the side where the components are seen / where the tube sockets have its pins for the valves to be inserted, is located left to the sucker resistor, south from the v2 tube)
*lift the south lug of this detected .047 capacitor, the south lug is the lug closest to the footswitch and the potentiometers;
*solder a wire or something conductive of your choice from the lifted lug of the capacitor mentioned above to the unused lug of the volume potentiometer (the stock settings of the volume potentiometer had two lugs out of three being connected to the circuit and one free lug, unused)
this mod rendered the Bass and Treble controls unusable, a wide, flatter frequency/EQ and more gain/output, much more;
overall, it was worth it;
then i've unsoldered the 220k resistor piggybacked in the v1 tube biasing section, but i've tested the pedal before doing it, to hear the difference;
with the stock settings for the v1 bias, the sound had more compressed and harsh characteristics, i am seriously considering to remake the lower resistance bias mod suggested by our fellow Printer, but i'll experiment a little more before deciding, even so i'm almost sure that its more suitable for my work to lower the v1 bias resistor values, because it makes the pedal closer to a booster;
with or without the changes in v1 resistor bias, there was an issue bothering me a little: the pedal is useable, and have good output, enough to 'expand' any tube amp instead of mushing out like before, BUT... if i raise too much the gain and volume pots, the amp starts to squeal like an overdriven amp on 10 being pushed by a Proco Rat on 10 with the filter on 0
maybe because the bottle rocket is too powerful now, or the highs need to be tamed a bit, or something else that i dont know, so i ask guidance about this subject;
another question: i've seen the schematics again, and it looks like theres no input resistor (i can be wrong)
in case theres really no input resistor or if theres a low Z input resistor, would there be any benefits if i add one or increase the input resistance? if yes, which value could be optimal in theory?
thanks in advance
-Guima;
Hey welcome back. The schematic says a 10M resistor, kind of high but when the guitar is plugged in the impedance drops to that of your guitar's volume control. The squealing, try a cap bypassing the plate resistors to find out which stage it is. A design that is stable may not be if you increase the gain, as you have found.
aahh... THAT is the input Z! i see it close to the pin 7, yes... i thought the resistor was something like... in series with the input, such as input > resistor > something else
sorry for my lack of knowledge *laughs*
thanks, i'll experiment this cap bypass thing later and then post the results;
i don't know when i'll do it since the pedal is working even not at 100% and i called it a day, since i've gotta probably disassemble it again to do this cap bypass thing (or its something that can be piggybacked?)
i'm having some trouble here concerning jealous neighbours, i'm in process of moving to another state, i've already contacted the landlord to close the agreement;
but for sure i'll do this experimentation before july, then i gotta do the wahwah @18volts tryout after, too...
i've also had a quick peep about 'voltage dividers' and i kinda understood the shallow concept of it, but theres math involved to fully understand it and it will take about an year or so studying it little by little to claim that i understand it... i quit physics college/university for many reasons... differentials/math is one of them LOL
well thanks alot
best wishes
sorry for my lack of knowledge *laughs*
thanks, i'll experiment this cap bypass thing later and then post the results;
i don't know when i'll do it since the pedal is working even not at 100% and i called it a day, since i've gotta probably disassemble it again to do this cap bypass thing (or its something that can be piggybacked?)
i'm having some trouble here concerning jealous neighbours, i'm in process of moving to another state, i've already contacted the landlord to close the agreement;
but for sure i'll do this experimentation before july, then i gotta do the wahwah @18volts tryout after, too...
i've also had a quick peep about 'voltage dividers' and i kinda understood the shallow concept of it, but theres math involved to fully understand it and it will take about an year or so studying it little by little to claim that i understand it... i quit physics college/university for many reasons... differentials/math is one of them LOL
well thanks alot
best wishes
OH MY GOD, PRINTER2!!! I AM YOUR FAN, I SWEAR UR MY MASTER OMFG!!!!
i was obcessed in finishing this pedal.
then i've holded a small ceramic cap, 1k or 0.001uf with pliers and random picked "possible" plate resistors (linked to pin 1&6) from the back of the circuit board, since i was too mentally affected to disassemble it;
without bypass cap, there was squealing and radio frequencies;
the sweet spot was the plate resistor of pin 1 from the first tube, the same v1 tube that you suggested to halve the resistance from pin 6 plate resistor and its cathode aswell;
many caps and values were tested (ceramic, polyester, P.I.O)
i've had to fully scoop mids to 0 in my amp and crank to 10 on bass/treble/presence to confirm if there would be highs rolloff;
before doing so, i've spent the last night studying about this capacitor bypass thing, many techs said its used as last resort, the calculators suggested 1/100th of the resistor value (100k Z = 0.001uf... i might be wrong)
i was shocked with the practical test results:
... 22k (0.022uf) polyester cap for perfectly squeal/radio rolloff without losing the highs!!!
man, i must admit: the halving of v1 pin 6 plate resistor + its cathode + full tonestack bypass + 220k tone stack resistor removal (used to piggyback in parallel with the pin6 resistor) + v1 pin 1 plate resistor cap bypass mod with 22k polyester, resulted in:
ten years gone of tone seeking;
i am so thankful, and i encourage anyone who wouldnt believe this is possible, to try it and see that what i am saying its true
this pedal now acts as an extention of the amplifier, no matter how you EQ the amp (marshal midrangey, fender/mesa scooped, you name it...)
with pre gain and volume controls in the pedal, anything is possible:
-you can crank your amp's single channel naturally into lead drive and use the pedal on lowest gain and volume to 'clean/attenuate' the amp, adding rhythmic/organic very pleasing harmonics;
-you can set your amp clean and use the pedal to add harmonics without clipping
-you can set the amp clean and slam the front of it with the pedal set for any of this options without noise, hum, oscillation ---> boost / overdrive / lead drive / fuzz / lead fuzz (although, when you engage the post lead drive territory theres a slight feedback, which is natural and even pleasing, but not much... very quiet... i was tripping doing some improvisation riffs which reminded sabbath/70's/tony iommi)
-you can set your amp dirty and engage the pedal to add even more gain/harmonics without mushing out into ugly buzzsaw preamp distortion
MAN, I SWEAR IT!!!
this... thing... pedal... is...
the most unique piece of gear i've even heard, seen or experimented
i've tryed almost every boutique gimmicks, pedals, lead channels, etc... nothing compares to this pedal now
theres really much to thank everyone who supported, special thanks to Printer2
woah, Woah WoAHHhhH wtf...
try for yourselves, i swear it!
i hope this thread helps other bottle rocket users and DIYers who try to build it, because...
WOAH!
i was obcessed in finishing this pedal.
then i've holded a small ceramic cap, 1k or 0.001uf with pliers and random picked "possible" plate resistors (linked to pin 1&6) from the back of the circuit board, since i was too mentally affected to disassemble it;
without bypass cap, there was squealing and radio frequencies;
the sweet spot was the plate resistor of pin 1 from the first tube, the same v1 tube that you suggested to halve the resistance from pin 6 plate resistor and its cathode aswell;
many caps and values were tested (ceramic, polyester, P.I.O)
i've had to fully scoop mids to 0 in my amp and crank to 10 on bass/treble/presence to confirm if there would be highs rolloff;
before doing so, i've spent the last night studying about this capacitor bypass thing, many techs said its used as last resort, the calculators suggested 1/100th of the resistor value (100k Z = 0.001uf... i might be wrong)
i was shocked with the practical test results:
... 22k (0.022uf) polyester cap for perfectly squeal/radio rolloff without losing the highs!!!
man, i must admit: the halving of v1 pin 6 plate resistor + its cathode + full tonestack bypass + 220k tone stack resistor removal (used to piggyback in parallel with the pin6 resistor) + v1 pin 1 plate resistor cap bypass mod with 22k polyester, resulted in:
ten years gone of tone seeking;
i am so thankful, and i encourage anyone who wouldnt believe this is possible, to try it and see that what i am saying its true
this pedal now acts as an extention of the amplifier, no matter how you EQ the amp (marshal midrangey, fender/mesa scooped, you name it...)
with pre gain and volume controls in the pedal, anything is possible:
-you can crank your amp's single channel naturally into lead drive and use the pedal on lowest gain and volume to 'clean/attenuate' the amp, adding rhythmic/organic very pleasing harmonics;
-you can set your amp clean and use the pedal to add harmonics without clipping
-you can set the amp clean and slam the front of it with the pedal set for any of this options without noise, hum, oscillation ---> boost / overdrive / lead drive / fuzz / lead fuzz (although, when you engage the post lead drive territory theres a slight feedback, which is natural and even pleasing, but not much... very quiet... i was tripping doing some improvisation riffs which reminded sabbath/70's/tony iommi)
-you can set your amp dirty and engage the pedal to add even more gain/harmonics without mushing out into ugly buzzsaw preamp distortion
MAN, I SWEAR IT!!!
this... thing... pedal... is...
the most unique piece of gear i've even heard, seen or experimented
i've tryed almost every boutique gimmicks, pedals, lead channels, etc... nothing compares to this pedal now
theres really much to thank everyone who supported, special thanks to Printer2
woah, Woah WoAHHhhH wtf...
try for yourselves, i swear it!
i hope this thread helps other bottle rocket users and DIYers who try to build it, because...
WOAH!
Cool. If you could, because you did so many changes and it might be easy to miss something, maybe print out the schematic and scribble part valued and added, bypassed parts on the schematic. And take a picture of it and post it. It would be good to see the big picture that a schematic can show what you finally achieved. And congratulations, you have gone further than most people would and actually got what you wanted. Not so easy a task with what you started with.
sure thing! i'll gladly do it!
just to let y'all know: i ain't no electronics tech or something...
just a rookie thats obcessed with my own songs quality...
since i had low resources, but luckly, the local stores let me test their stuff, i could pile up knowledge...
listening from benny goodman to black metal, i've learn alot about music, i have no prejudice towards music genres, but the artist must be true, the songs must be real yall kno
so i always had in my mind the stuff i wanted to put it out and how it should be done, but like an iliterate newbie on autism, i couldnt describe it
theres a guy in my town who had plenty of patience to teach me on whatsapp some electronics, but i always knew it was tough for him since he had alot going on for himself and helping me demanded time and much patience
later on i'll send ya (Printer2) some of our 6 demo releases... theres more 5 to go, maybe tomorrow i finish the mix of the seventh, since it took alot of efforts recording everything on mono android phone with no interface, but we achieved a good mix, better quality than many 90's studio releases converted to mp3
in respect to this community i won't advertise it here, but anyone who asks on PM will have the links to our songs, after we release all 11, i'll remaster them according to public feedback concerning eq/mix (we wont change the songs, just this shallow details) and i plan into uploading the mp3 to be downloaded for free
also in respect to Printer2's request, i'll edit the schematic into the current pedal specs, but as i said earlier, my phone got some kind of bug (yeah... its literally bugged) and i have to root it, but i'll tweak something this week or next to quickly upload the new schematic here ASAP, count it on
again, much thanks and...
... I WILL BE BACK! *laughs*
thx u all
just to let y'all know: i ain't no electronics tech or something...
just a rookie thats obcessed with my own songs quality...
since i had low resources, but luckly, the local stores let me test their stuff, i could pile up knowledge...
listening from benny goodman to black metal, i've learn alot about music, i have no prejudice towards music genres, but the artist must be true, the songs must be real yall kno
so i always had in my mind the stuff i wanted to put it out and how it should be done, but like an iliterate newbie on autism, i couldnt describe it
theres a guy in my town who had plenty of patience to teach me on whatsapp some electronics, but i always knew it was tough for him since he had alot going on for himself and helping me demanded time and much patience
later on i'll send ya (Printer2) some of our 6 demo releases... theres more 5 to go, maybe tomorrow i finish the mix of the seventh, since it took alot of efforts recording everything on mono android phone with no interface, but we achieved a good mix, better quality than many 90's studio releases converted to mp3
in respect to this community i won't advertise it here, but anyone who asks on PM will have the links to our songs, after we release all 11, i'll remaster them according to public feedback concerning eq/mix (we wont change the songs, just this shallow details) and i plan into uploading the mp3 to be downloaded for free
also in respect to Printer2's request, i'll edit the schematic into the current pedal specs, but as i said earlier, my phone got some kind of bug (yeah... its literally bugged) and i have to root it, but i'll tweak something this week or next to quickly upload the new schematic here ASAP, count it on
again, much thanks and...
... I WILL BE BACK! *laughs*
thx u all
theres the request:
-scratched original schematic
-organized modified schematic (i named it Loko Grind'er)
-22k polyester cap (looks like orange drop but its just a phillips)
i could talk more, but im kinda depressed;
again, thx
-scratched original schematic
-organized modified schematic (i named it Loko Grind'er)
-22k polyester cap (looks like orange drop but its just a phillips)
i could talk more, but im kinda depressed;
again, thx
Attachments
It makes sense for what you wanted to get out of it. I can see it working well. I don't have time to try every circuit so I am interested when people go off the beaten path. And while I had an idea on what I thought would work until you actually do it you don't know. Whereas you know. Nice to get at the end of a journey with what you were hoping to find.
alright friends, many thanks and sorry for bothering
it could seem off-topic, since the question concerned a tube amp, but it happened after the bottle rocket (a.k.a loko grind'er) modification, so i thought it wouldnt hurt to be sure!
it might look like mechanical impact because of the cracked glass and stuff, but i'd tell ya i'm very careful when handling this stuff... it's very expensive round here.
since the crack appeared very close to the pins of which are attached to the sockets, maybe the tube got stressed out by being swapped many times due to the mods and tests on the amp
l8rZ 'n many thx!
it could seem off-topic, since the question concerned a tube amp, but it happened after the bottle rocket (a.k.a loko grind'er) modification, so i thought it wouldnt hurt to be sure!
it might look like mechanical impact because of the cracked glass and stuff, but i'd tell ya i'm very careful when handling this stuff... it's very expensive round here.
since the crack appeared very close to the pins of which are attached to the sockets, maybe the tube got stressed out by being swapped many times due to the mods and tests on the amp
l8rZ 'n many thx!
Attachments
Last edited:
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