Greetings to all.
tonequester here, making my first post on this forum. I'm hoping to get some opinions coincerning a mid range "passive boost" circuit for electric guitar. As it concerns boosting of a signal, I hope that this is the right part of the forum to post this on. please, pardon me if it is not.
The circuit in question is a device offered for sale($112.00) by Villex. I spoke to the owner/designer about it, but he has such a heavy accent that it was hard to understand some of what he was trying to tell me. I got this much : he says that the circuit, which is built into an output jack, is designed to take advantage of the loss of signal strength, or inefficiency of the Stratocasters basic circuit. He says that it is NOT a bass/treble cut, as many supposed mid range "boosters" are. It is not an LC network. He says that energy is lost due to the loading of the pickups, and the impedance/reactance of the whole circuit. He also says that his jack uses "new magnetic materials", and basically conserves lost energy, and uses it to boost the mid range frequencies of the guitar.
The sound bit that his website offered, of course sounded great. He played the same "lick", first without the jack circuit engaged(it has a bypass switch), and then with it engaged, for each of the 5 positions of the pickup selector switch. The sound bite seemed to "prove" considerable boost of mid range frequencies with all three pickups each by themselves, as well as with neck and mid combined, and mid and bridge combined. The tone was pretty close to what I desire. I have heard others post(on other forums) who state that there is no such thing as a passive boost, period. I was actually of this opinion before talking to the owner/designer. Now I am wondering about his approach. The trouble is that I am not well grounded enough in theory to determine if his circuit is possible or not.
For some reason, his explanation(even though I didn't get the half of it) seemed to make some sense to me, and I got the feeling that he was quite sincere. As I questioned him pretty thoroughly, and made it clear that I did not want another bass/treble cut circuit, parading as a mid range booster, he assured me that this booster is the real deal. The guy even asked me what I thought he ought to do to help market it, and that he isn't very good at business.
So, if anybody would to "chime in" on this one, I'd be very thankful and appreciative. I have tried to Google this subject, but have had no luck. This is most probably because
I lack the theory to even search the internet properly regarding this subject. Again, thanks to anyone who has an opinion. I would hate to spend the $112.00 only to find out that it IS some scam. If I wanted to "boost" the mid range by cutting bass and treble, then turning up the volume, I can do that comparatively cheap. tonequester out.
P.S., I apologize for the length of my post.
tonequester here, making my first post on this forum. I'm hoping to get some opinions coincerning a mid range "passive boost" circuit for electric guitar. As it concerns boosting of a signal, I hope that this is the right part of the forum to post this on. please, pardon me if it is not.
The circuit in question is a device offered for sale($112.00) by Villex. I spoke to the owner/designer about it, but he has such a heavy accent that it was hard to understand some of what he was trying to tell me. I got this much : he says that the circuit, which is built into an output jack, is designed to take advantage of the loss of signal strength, or inefficiency of the Stratocasters basic circuit. He says that it is NOT a bass/treble cut, as many supposed mid range "boosters" are. It is not an LC network. He says that energy is lost due to the loading of the pickups, and the impedance/reactance of the whole circuit. He also says that his jack uses "new magnetic materials", and basically conserves lost energy, and uses it to boost the mid range frequencies of the guitar.
The sound bit that his website offered, of course sounded great. He played the same "lick", first without the jack circuit engaged(it has a bypass switch), and then with it engaged, for each of the 5 positions of the pickup selector switch. The sound bite seemed to "prove" considerable boost of mid range frequencies with all three pickups each by themselves, as well as with neck and mid combined, and mid and bridge combined. The tone was pretty close to what I desire. I have heard others post(on other forums) who state that there is no such thing as a passive boost, period. I was actually of this opinion before talking to the owner/designer. Now I am wondering about his approach. The trouble is that I am not well grounded enough in theory to determine if his circuit is possible or not.
For some reason, his explanation(even though I didn't get the half of it) seemed to make some sense to me, and I got the feeling that he was quite sincere. As I questioned him pretty thoroughly, and made it clear that I did not want another bass/treble cut circuit, parading as a mid range booster, he assured me that this booster is the real deal. The guy even asked me what I thought he ought to do to help market it, and that he isn't very good at business.
So, if anybody would to "chime in" on this one, I'd be very thankful and appreciative. I have tried to Google this subject, but have had no luck. This is most probably because
I lack the theory to even search the internet properly regarding this subject. Again, thanks to anyone who has an opinion. I would hate to spend the $112.00 only to find out that it IS some scam. If I wanted to "boost" the mid range by cutting bass and treble, then turning up the volume, I can do that comparatively cheap. tonequester out. P.S., I apologize for the length of my post.
Whether it is a scam or not could depend on whether the seller genuinely believes his own blurb. To boost midrange passively you need an LC circuit; even that will only boost voltage, not energy. He says it is not that - first warning sign. You say it uses "new magnetic materials" - second warning sign. It is conceivable that it just adds a capacitor and uses the existing inductance of the pickup.
Without a clear explanation I would steer clear. With a clear explanation you might wonder whether the price is appropriate.
Without a clear explanation I would steer clear. With a clear explanation you might wonder whether the price is appropriate.
mid range "passive boost" circuit.
Greetings, and thanks DF96.
I appreciate your reply to my post. I will definitely continue "researching" this subject, and will also contact the designer again before I spend $112.00 plus $8.00 shipping on the jack. The biggest problem with my first contact with the guy was just how hard it was to understand him, due to his thick accent, which sounded Russian. I believe that the use of the word power was not mentioned by him. I apologize for steering you wrong on that. He did mention signal loss in the guitars circuit through the impedance of the pickups, and capacitance, even through the guitar to amp cable. He did claim that his circuit was able to make use of this "loss". However, he did mention that his circuit used "new magnetic materials". This is one thing that I should have questioned him about, and will, if and when I talk to him again. I hope to get a few more responses here, before I contact him again, and as I said, I'm still trying to "research" this on my own. I plan to try a search of the Patent Office to see if there has been any kind of patent filed, or granted for such "technology". I really appreciate your time in posting, and respect your advice to be cautious. I'm glad to make your aquaintance here on the forum.
Best regards, tonequester.
Greetings, and thanks DF96.
I appreciate your reply to my post. I will definitely continue "researching" this subject, and will also contact the designer again before I spend $112.00 plus $8.00 shipping on the jack. The biggest problem with my first contact with the guy was just how hard it was to understand him, due to his thick accent, which sounded Russian. I believe that the use of the word power was not mentioned by him. I apologize for steering you wrong on that. He did mention signal loss in the guitars circuit through the impedance of the pickups, and capacitance, even through the guitar to amp cable. He did claim that his circuit was able to make use of this "loss". However, he did mention that his circuit used "new magnetic materials". This is one thing that I should have questioned him about, and will, if and when I talk to him again. I hope to get a few more responses here, before I contact him again, and as I said, I'm still trying to "research" this on my own. I plan to try a search of the Patent Office to see if there has been any kind of patent filed, or granted for such "technology". I really appreciate your time in posting, and respect your advice to be cautious. I'm glad to make your aquaintance here on the forum.
Best regards, tonequester.
Greetings to all.
Tonequester here. I see that William Villex has joined as I suggested he should. I will email him and let him know that an explanation of his circuit is awaited on the forum. He is completely new to forums, and may be new to other things American, judging from his accent. Here's some exciting news as far as I am concerned however. He emailed me after I sent him word of, and advice to join this forum. He asked me for my shipping address so that he can send me his jack, no money up front. I had mentioned during our phone call, that IF I were to purchase the jack, I couldn't afford to do so for a couple of weeks. Mr. Villex must be pretty confident concerning his jack. He gave me the impression that he had integrity during our phone call, but he said that he "wasn't so good at business". I have to say that in my case, customer service is way up there at the top. If he is willing to trust me enough to send me the Strat-Jack, free to try, that's an unheard of start. One last thing, I want to say that I am in no way affiliated with him, or Villex, other than as a perspective customer. I will post a sound bite once I have installed the jack in my main guitar. If it sounds as good as the Villex web site sound bite, I'll be satisfied. I'm already very satisfied with his approach to doing business. tonequester out, for now.
Tonequester here. I see that William Villex has joined as I suggested he should. I will email him and let him know that an explanation of his circuit is awaited on the forum. He is completely new to forums, and may be new to other things American, judging from his accent. Here's some exciting news as far as I am concerned however. He emailed me after I sent him word of, and advice to join this forum. He asked me for my shipping address so that he can send me his jack, no money up front. I had mentioned during our phone call, that IF I were to purchase the jack, I couldn't afford to do so for a couple of weeks. Mr. Villex must be pretty confident concerning his jack. He gave me the impression that he had integrity during our phone call, but he said that he "wasn't so good at business". I have to say that in my case, customer service is way up there at the top. If he is willing to trust me enough to send me the Strat-Jack, free to try, that's an unheard of start. One last thing, I want to say that I am in no way affiliated with him, or Villex, other than as a perspective customer. I will post a sound bite once I have installed the jack in my main guitar. If it sounds as good as the Villex web site sound bite, I'll be satisfied. I'm already very satisfied with his approach to doing business. tonequester out, for now.
If you know nothing about electronics, $112 seems like a reasonable deal for someone to choose some components for you, stick them in a box and support you in wiring it up. There might only be $5 worth of components in it, you are paying for the time and effort involved in choosing the right components to shape the sound in a pleasing way.
I couldn't make a living selling gizmos like that even if the box were completely empty.
I'd bet it is some kind of autotransformer or tapped inductor.
I couldn't make a living selling gizmos like that even if the box were completely empty.
I'd bet it is some kind of autotransformer or tapped inductor.
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Hi, +1, all it realistically can be, versions may vary, rgds, sreten.
Though I wonder if a transformer would reduce hum possibility.
Hello guys.
From basic physics we know that:
"To get most power from energy generator, the load must match internal resistance of the generator"[/B]
We do that all the time when we match speaker cabinet with amp output resistance.
If they don't match, we loosing energy by either over load generator leading to internal lost of energy
or under load generator so not using 100% of it's capabilities.
We all do that when we match amp with speakers.
This is relatively simple to do with speakers and amp because they have practically only resistive component
of impedance. (Impedance is complex resistance that composed of R, L and C resistance or reactance).
NOW ABOUT PICKUPS.
Pickups are coils. Therefore the main component of it is inductive resistance. We actually should call
it reactance.
To get max energy from pickup we must match pickup output impedance with the AMP input.
AMP input is pretty much constant within guitar frequency range and is about 1.2 MΩ (megaohm = 1000 KΩ)
for the most AMPS.
In contrary pickup impedance changes a lot within it's frequency range.
Here is table of reactance for pickup that has 6 H (Henry) inductance.
on 41 Hz (low E on bass) ----------------------- 1.55 KΩ
on 82 Hz (low E on guitar) ------------------- 3.10 KΩ
------------------------------------------------------------------------
on 659 Hz (high E on 12 th fret --------------- 25.07 KΩ
As for harmonics 15,000 Hz ------------------ 565.32 KΩ
As you can see they are much lower than AMP load and that's where energy is lost !
You may ask me very reasonable question: Why not to make pickups with higher inductance
and recover all that lost energy ?? The answer is CABLE. From very beginning Leo Fender
started designing pickups that are loaded with 500 pf cable. That's 10' cable. The longer cable
the higher capacitance. Cable can pass up to certain frequency. At that frequency it gives
resonant boost of this particular frequency and then sharp cut off.
Table for such frequencies:
for 6 H (Henry) pickup ----------------------- 2900 Hz
5 H ----------------------- 3200 Hz
4 H ----------------------- 3550 Hz
3 H ----------------------- 4100 Hz
I have tried to show you how mush energy is lost there between pickup and amp.
There is a lot of simplification just to make it understandable for most of you guys.
For those of you with high knowledge in theory and have some specific questions
I will be happy to answer.
Of cause I wouldn't explain how in particular I recover some of lost energy. That is my trade secret.
Respectfully, William Villex.
From basic physics we know that:
"To get most power from energy generator, the load must match internal resistance of the generator"[/B]
We do that all the time when we match speaker cabinet with amp output resistance.
If they don't match, we loosing energy by either over load generator leading to internal lost of energy
or under load generator so not using 100% of it's capabilities.
We all do that when we match amp with speakers.
This is relatively simple to do with speakers and amp because they have practically only resistive component
of impedance. (Impedance is complex resistance that composed of R, L and C resistance or reactance).
NOW ABOUT PICKUPS.
Pickups are coils. Therefore the main component of it is inductive resistance. We actually should call
it reactance.
To get max energy from pickup we must match pickup output impedance with the AMP input.
AMP input is pretty much constant within guitar frequency range and is about 1.2 MΩ (megaohm = 1000 KΩ)
for the most AMPS.
In contrary pickup impedance changes a lot within it's frequency range.
Here is table of reactance for pickup that has 6 H (Henry) inductance.
on 41 Hz (low E on bass) ----------------------- 1.55 KΩ
on 82 Hz (low E on guitar) ------------------- 3.10 KΩ
------------------------------------------------------------------------
on 659 Hz (high E on 12 th fret --------------- 25.07 KΩ
As for harmonics 15,000 Hz ------------------ 565.32 KΩ
As you can see they are much lower than AMP load and that's where energy is lost !
You may ask me very reasonable question: Why not to make pickups with higher inductance
and recover all that lost energy ?? The answer is CABLE. From very beginning Leo Fender
started designing pickups that are loaded with 500 pf cable. That's 10' cable. The longer cable
the higher capacitance. Cable can pass up to certain frequency. At that frequency it gives
resonant boost of this particular frequency and then sharp cut off.
Table for such frequencies:
for 6 H (Henry) pickup ----------------------- 2900 Hz
5 H ----------------------- 3200 Hz
4 H ----------------------- 3550 Hz
3 H ----------------------- 4100 Hz
I have tried to show you how mush energy is lost there between pickup and amp.
There is a lot of simplification just to make it understandable for most of you guys.
For those of you with high knowledge in theory and have some specific questions
I will be happy to answer.
Of cause I wouldn't explain how in particular I recover some of lost energy. That is my trade secret.
Respectfully, William Villex.
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No we don't. You are confusing output impedance with optimum load impedance; a common mistake.Villex said:
Not quite - you need a conjugate match. As you say, a capacitance. As I said in post 2:
This technique is commonly used with MM turntable cartridges.DF96 said:
No need to do that.
Thanks for your explanation. As expected, it is an LC circuit with the pickup forming the L.
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Hi,
It is not complicated as soon as you include cable capacitance,
which I had already surmised was the case for bypass above.
If there is more to your stuff than the clearly obvious and
simple way of interpreting the above fair enough, but its
pretty clear it has to be transformer based (tapped, auto).
Turns thin/bright low output lower impedance and output
pickups into fatter/darker higher impedance and output.
By upping output and the effective interacting inductance.
It gets more complicated interacting with the passive tone
controls on guitars, and placement relative to the tone
and volume controls, simple to model in a circuit simulator.
Simplest circuit emulator IMO is the free basic TinaTi.
rgds, sreten.
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Hi,
Don't teach your grandma to suck eggs.
I know how guitar tone controls work.
Wrong assumption *. I know exactly how your circuit works
and if you think the fact you have some transformer gain
in there is a "trade secret" your very mistaken about the
calibre of the people you are dealing with on this forum.
Guitar players are pretty clueless, we are not remotely.
rgds, sreten.
* I really can't work out how you can try to pretend
I don't know what is going on when its clearly stated.
Only as a courtesy for your "trade secret" did I imply
there might be more to it than the obvious, but then
you to imply I don't get the very obvious is just stupid.
Transformer gain will increase voltage and the reflected
inductance interacting with cable capacitance, dropping
the Frequency and Q of the resonant peak relative to
the nominal changes in the output level.
The effect of your modifications on the effectiveness
of the tone controls fitted to guitars is not explored.
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Greetings to all who have thus far replied.
Well, it seems that we have a lively discussion going here. This can only be helpful and advantageous to all, as long as we keep it friendly. I'm fraid that at this point, I have become a mere spectator, as I have just begun my formal education in electronics as I study for the C.E.T.a exam. I don't have a clue to as to exactly what Mr. Villex circuit is. I do know that he has stated that he is sending me one of them ,sans cash up front. I guarantee this much. When I get it, I will not have a hard time finding out if it IS an LC circuit for bass and treble cut, masquarading as a mid boost. I may not yet know theory like some do here, but I have the equipment needed to measure the output signal and know how to use it. Even better, I have two ears that function quite well. I must say that I can't believe that anybody trying to pass off a transformer, cap, and inductor, either singly, or in combination for $112.00 would send me one without having my cash in hand. However, I must also admit that I have been wrong more times than I care to admit. Thanks to Mr Villex for his posting, and thanks to all who are participating. One things for sure. I seem to learn something every time I log on to this forum, and that's what it's all about for me. "Til next time,....tonequester out.
Well, it seems that we have a lively discussion going here. This can only be helpful and advantageous to all, as long as we keep it friendly. I'm fraid that at this point, I have become a mere spectator, as I have just begun my formal education in electronics as I study for the C.E.T.a exam. I don't have a clue to as to exactly what Mr. Villex circuit is. I do know that he has stated that he is sending me one of them ,sans cash up front. I guarantee this much. When I get it, I will not have a hard time finding out if it IS an LC circuit for bass and treble cut, masquarading as a mid boost. I may not yet know theory like some do here, but I have the equipment needed to measure the output signal and know how to use it. Even better, I have two ears that function quite well. I must say that I can't believe that anybody trying to pass off a transformer, cap, and inductor, either singly, or in combination for $112.00 would send me one without having my cash in hand. However, I must also admit that I have been wrong more times than I care to admit. Thanks to Mr Villex for his posting, and thanks to all who are participating. One things for sure. I seem to learn something every time I log on to this forum, and that's what it's all about for me. "Til next time,....tonequester out.
explanation noted and appreciated, but......
Greetings to all.
tonequester here. Thanks to all who have replied, and thanks to Mr. Villex for his explanation. I am unfortunately in the beginning stage of studying for my C.E.T. I've been into music electronics, both s.s. and tube technology since 1981-82, but have been pretty much "monkey see.....monkey do. I hope within the year to be better suited to talk theory, and speculate. However, playing electric guitar for 33 years has taught me that where music is concerned, theory takes a back seat to what my ears detect. I've played more effects, both analog and digital than many here because I'm just that darned old. In truth, I don't care if Villex is using a tapped transformer in his device or not. If he is, perhaps it's been done before and I just haven't stumbled on to it in 33 years of experimenting with modifications to my guitar/amp tone. However, I doubt it. I've done the Varitone/LC circuit thing, and what I hear on the Villex sound bite is way better than anything I have heard in that regard. I'll admit that there are "tricks" that can be done with sound bites, but in my experience such scams are rare.
I tend to be trusting, and I haven't been taken yet, to any great degree. I know that the "proof is in the pudding". For me, I really don't care if Villex uses a center tapped transformer. If he does, I wonder why somebody hasn't put it into a Strat's output jack before, and made it switchable. I look forward to getting the jack as promised by Mr. Villex, and installing it without soldering as he has stated can be done. Then I will use once again the most important piece of test equipment that I can bring to bear,.......my ears. I'll be tempted to test it electronically, and even to tear it apart, but if it sounds as good as I think it will through my "rig", there'll be no need(at least the tearing apart part). I run my guitars volume at maximum. I overdrive my tubes to suit the blues and blues/rock that I play. Just the devices "packaging" is unique to me, and just the thing to be able to cut to the solo, or even to change output/tone mid solo. At the least, it turns the stock Stratocaster"s 5 tones, into 10 tones.
I am working on a way to provide a sound bite, but I realize that on THIS forum more analytical data would be appreciated. My equipment is limited here to checking signal output at a given frequency, and I'm willing to do that when I get the jack.For now, I will leave the speculation to those who have a better grasp of theory than I do, and take Mr. Villex at his word that this is not a circuit that cuts bass and treble, to give the illusion of mid range boost. However, I DO like to hear opinions about this circuit. I seem to learn at least a little, each time I check in. For that I thank everyone who has such opinion(s). tonequester out, and I hope my paragraphs don't disappear. If they do, I apologize for my forum ignorance, and my ignorance in general.
Greetings to all.
tonequester here. Thanks to all who have replied, and thanks to Mr. Villex for his explanation. I am unfortunately in the beginning stage of studying for my C.E.T. I've been into music electronics, both s.s. and tube technology since 1981-82, but have been pretty much "monkey see.....monkey do. I hope within the year to be better suited to talk theory, and speculate. However, playing electric guitar for 33 years has taught me that where music is concerned, theory takes a back seat to what my ears detect. I've played more effects, both analog and digital than many here because I'm just that darned old. In truth, I don't care if Villex is using a tapped transformer in his device or not. If he is, perhaps it's been done before and I just haven't stumbled on to it in 33 years of experimenting with modifications to my guitar/amp tone. However, I doubt it. I've done the Varitone/LC circuit thing, and what I hear on the Villex sound bite is way better than anything I have heard in that regard. I'll admit that there are "tricks" that can be done with sound bites, but in my experience such scams are rare.
I tend to be trusting, and I haven't been taken yet, to any great degree. I know that the "proof is in the pudding". For me, I really don't care if Villex uses a center tapped transformer. If he does, I wonder why somebody hasn't put it into a Strat's output jack before, and made it switchable. I look forward to getting the jack as promised by Mr. Villex, and installing it without soldering as he has stated can be done. Then I will use once again the most important piece of test equipment that I can bring to bear,.......my ears. I'll be tempted to test it electronically, and even to tear it apart, but if it sounds as good as I think it will through my "rig", there'll be no need(at least the tearing apart part). I run my guitars volume at maximum. I overdrive my tubes to suit the blues and blues/rock that I play. Just the devices "packaging" is unique to me, and just the thing to be able to cut to the solo, or even to change output/tone mid solo. At the least, it turns the stock Stratocaster"s 5 tones, into 10 tones.
I am working on a way to provide a sound bite, but I realize that on THIS forum more analytical data would be appreciated. My equipment is limited here to checking signal output at a given frequency, and I'm willing to do that when I get the jack.For now, I will leave the speculation to those who have a better grasp of theory than I do, and take Mr. Villex at his word that this is not a circuit that cuts bass and treble, to give the illusion of mid range boost. However, I DO like to hear opinions about this circuit. I seem to learn at least a little, each time I check in. For that I thank everyone who has such opinion(s). tonequester out, and I hope my paragraphs don't disappear. If they do, I apologize for my forum ignorance, and my ignorance in general.
Meh. There are a few things you can try.
When you get the gizmo, before you install it in your guitar, hook it up to the amp, hold it near some appliance with a transformer inside and see if it picks up hum. That would be a dead giveaway that it also has a transformer or coil inside.
Beyond that, just play it and see if you like it!
I agree 100% with sreten. The graphs give it away, the only thing it can be is a transformer. From the amp's point of view, it steps up the pickup output voltage. From the pickup's point of view it makes the cable capacitance look bigger, so the pickup's resonant peak moves down in frequency and gets more pronounced.
In musician speak, it turns your pickups into super-hot overwound ones at the flip of a switch.
When you get the gizmo, before you install it in your guitar, hook it up to the amp, hold it near some appliance with a transformer inside and see if it picks up hum. That would be a dead giveaway that it also has a transformer or coil inside.
Beyond that, just play it and see if you like it!
I agree 100% with sreten. The graphs give it away, the only thing it can be is a transformer. From the amp's point of view, it steps up the pickup output voltage. From the pickup's point of view it makes the cable capacitance look bigger, so the pickup's resonant peak moves down in frequency and gets more pronounced.
In musician speak, it turns your pickups into super-hot overwound ones at the flip of a switch.
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