The only purpose sharing the schematic would have is to show if the design will function...
... if someone asked me, and nobody has, my advice would be to build up the sections of the design as a breadboard/clip lead thing, and have proof of performance before spending the time and money to build a "finished" version.
LTspice is another option... before the breadboard version
... if someone asked me, and nobody has, my advice would be to build up the sections of the design as a breadboard/clip lead thing, and have proof of performance before spending the time and money to build a "finished" version.
LTspice is another option... before the breadboard version
--Edcor or even the crude Hammond (typical in the great Traynor amps) should be good nuff for the output iron. I once saw a friend build an elaborate guitar amp with a toroidal power transformer right next to the input stage - rectified - it threw out horrible hash which coupled into his outputs. I demonstrated this as a problem with his power transformer and an EI output tranny -the hash could be heard across the room with no amplifying components on a 95dB sensitivity speaker - just the magnetic coupling - but he went and built anyhow....
This is a disaster waiting to happen, to put it mildly. Got a big budget? Like, $2000+? That's labor only- you'll need an experienced builder to put it together, test and troubleshoot your design, which certainly has major shortcomings. How could it not? You clearly don't have practical experience designing or building amps.
yeah^^^
I don't know about the rest of you, but I charge $60 an hour for my bench.
The OP needs to consider his budget, and even if his schematic is a deep dark secret, he needs to share his budget at least. I can build a non-functional schematic exactly as drawn, if all you want is someone to build your circuit. (I am not offering to do so, but I am capable) But I assume you want it to work too. And all that tweaking and troubleshooting takes time, time I won;t be giving away. SO if in your imagination it was going to be an "I'll give you $50" event, think again. You hand me ALL, and I mean ALL, the parts, it still will take a few hours to build, and now we are into hundreds of dollars. All the fudging around to make it a real amp can easily push the price into four figures.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I charge $60 an hour for my bench.
The OP needs to consider his budget, and even if his schematic is a deep dark secret, he needs to share his budget at least. I can build a non-functional schematic exactly as drawn, if all you want is someone to build your circuit. (I am not offering to do so, but I am capable) But I assume you want it to work too. And all that tweaking and troubleshooting takes time, time I won;t be giving away. SO if in your imagination it was going to be an "I'll give you $50" event, think again. You hand me ALL, and I mean ALL, the parts, it still will take a few hours to build, and now we are into hundreds of dollars. All the fudging around to make it a real amp can easily push the price into four figures.
"if" the OP has use of his hands, then I'd suggest trying to find an old "Fender-style" amp with lots of chassis real-estate as cheap as possible, get a functional DMM, learn to be careful with high voltage (proper bleeding resistors - don't put two hands across something or one hand on hot and other on chassis) and build & tweak the secret-circuit. Use the variac to power on things. Fancy output transformers can rob an instrument of character and the builder of money.
hey ENZO - you mean you won't build for me a cool tube preamp for a six pack of Miller and some homemade cigarettes???
hey ENZO - you mean you won't build for me a cool tube preamp for a six pack of Miller and some homemade cigarettes???
For some, it might depend on the nature of the "cigarettes", but I don't know Enzo
I just recently assembled a Hypex nCore amp for a buddy- Just getting the details right and whatnot made it a 3 build session deal. At $60/hr I'd have been raking it in. It's a nice amp, all said and done, but he got off REALLY cheap for a few meals. I won't make that mistake again- he's a good guy but I gave up the bulk of 3 saturdays.
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For some, it might depend on the nature of the "cigarettes", but I don't know Enzo
I just recently assembled a Hypex nCore amp for a buddy- Just getting the details right and whatnot made it a 3 build session deal. At $60/hr I'd have been raking it in. It's a nice amp, all said and done, but he got off REALLY cheap for a few meals. I won't make that mistake again- he's a good guy but I gave up the bulk of 3 saturdays.
Over 20 years ago I built an amp for myself, just a small practice amp, lent it to a guy at work and he liked it so much he talked me into building him one. Along the money for the materials he did give a copy of a whole load of guitar instructional videos (Never used them, no idea where they went either, VHS anyone?) and half a funny rolled cigarette.
I think the cigarette is around here somewhere, probably easier to find the videos.
Enzo was a willing participant of the 1960s. I got it all out of my system, so to speak, back then.
One of my favorite project amps is an old Traynor, like a Bassmate or something. They were not unlike a Fender Bassman amp, but they were built like tanks, and had plenty of room in their chassis for making your own contributions. And while they were similar to fenders, they do not command anywhere near the price.
One of my favorite project amps is an old Traynor, like a Bassmate or something. They were not unlike a Fender Bassman amp, but they were built like tanks, and had plenty of room in their chassis for making your own contributions. And while they were similar to fenders, they do not command anywhere near the price.
I really appreciate all the dialogue. I have looked at the breadboard scenario, but I have a healthy respect for the learning curves and hazards and would be most comfortable with someone who knew their way around already and could catch some of the more obvious blunders before blowing things up. I could probably use a proof reader. It could be that I'm meant to do this all myself, but I'm going to see if there is a safer quicker way to go about it.
If I had more than a couple hours a week (library) of computer access, I might look into simulations- and if I could readily post an up to date schematic I would do so. It's not a deep dark secret- in fact if there are any ideas anyone can use, everyone is more than welcome to them.
I do expect to spend more than a couple thousand dollars getting this built. Funny cigarettes are plentiful enough here, but if any of you get within range they will be complimentary.
FWIW I live off grid with solar as a primary source, some seasonal hydro, and a good old Honda generator to pick up the slack. I see a portable rig as solar-driven with some of the safer lithium batteries. I have this thing about the great outdoors...
If I had more than a couple hours a week (library) of computer access, I might look into simulations- and if I could readily post an up to date schematic I would do so. It's not a deep dark secret- in fact if there are any ideas anyone can use, everyone is more than welcome to them.
I do expect to spend more than a couple thousand dollars getting this built. Funny cigarettes are plentiful enough here, but if any of you get within range they will be complimentary.
FWIW I live off grid with solar as a primary source, some seasonal hydro, and a good old Honda generator to pick up the slack. I see a portable rig as solar-driven with some of the safer lithium batteries. I have this thing about the great outdoors...
Lets just say I participated in the 60's....and the 70's.......and the 80's....then the era of "political correctness" and corporate "testing" made all the fun stuff go out of fashion.
I started making guitar amps out of old TV and radio parts in high school (yeah, the 60's). Back then I gave some away and sold a few.
In the 70's I got a job at a Motorola plant where they had an "audio club" The stuff we made then was powered by silicon. They even gave us "sample parts" for free. I still work there after 40+ years.
About 15 years ago I made a tube amp or a friend....then another.....and 5 years later this chain of events became Tubelab.
Back about 15 years ago someone gave me an old Traynor. I don't know the name, but it had 2 12AX7's and 2 EL84's and a rectifier. It would work for a while then quit, or it would break into an uncontrolled fit of snap, crackle, and pop disease on random occasions. I decided to gut it and use the chassis for projects. In the process, I found the original problem. One of the wires from the tag board to one of the pots was never soldered, just wrapped around the lug.
As Enzo said that chassis was big enough to build two amps inside and I have used it for dozens of experiments. I still have it, but EL34's now live where the '84's were, and the transformers have been swapped for bigger ones. Still plenty of room for projects.
It is possible to find an old dead amp for cheap or free. All you need is a chassis with a few good tube sockets and room for a transformer or two. It doesn't even need to be a guitar amp. An old radio or HiFi will do. Just avoid the transformerless death traps.
As for building someone else's designs, myself and many other members here don't have the time to finish our own designs, let alone an unknown entity.
And, yes I do have a guitar amp project in the works that hasn't been done before. The concept exists, but not the proper implementation.
Ted,
I was typing at the same time you were, but interrupted by the phone. If you aren't trying to keep the whole thing secret, post what you can of your design. Paper drawings can usually be scanned to PDF with some library copy machines. This way those of us here that have been building amps since the 60's can look at the design and spot the obvious stuff, and maybe offer up some pointers to a less experience builder so that they could make it work.
It is possible to build a HiFi amp with nothing more than a big bag of clip leads and some parts, but a guitar amp usually requires some more thought to the layout due to the high gain.
BTW. Variable gain amps have been around for decades.....that's how most audio compressors work. Some of the old tube compressors are still highly sought after...and so are the tubes that go in them, like the 6386 tubes that fit the old Fairchilds.
I was typing at the same time you were, but interrupted by the phone. If you aren't trying to keep the whole thing secret, post what you can of your design. Paper drawings can usually be scanned to PDF with some library copy machines. This way those of us here that have been building amps since the 60's can look at the design and spot the obvious stuff, and maybe offer up some pointers to a less experience builder so that they could make it work.
It is possible to build a HiFi amp with nothing more than a big bag of clip leads and some parts, but a guitar amp usually requires some more thought to the layout due to the high gain.
BTW. Variable gain amps have been around for decades.....that's how most audio compressors work. Some of the old tube compressors are still highly sought after...and so are the tubes that go in them, like the 6386 tubes that fit the old Fairchilds.
Ain't that the truth. I almost bought another consol radio from the thrift store for $25 with a P-P 6V6 output, the OT was a little small but the PT would have been fine. Paid for it and in less than an hour while I went to get my trailer someone grabbed the 6V6's and the 5Y3. $25 would still have been fine without the tubes a year or two ago but projects have just been appearing out of nowhere. Decided to leave it.
Nothing like some people around here (not mentioning any names) but I have only been at this a couple of years. I had to rearrange stuff to fit some more on my new shelf. More stuff on shelves in the workshop but these are actual projects.
And then there is the guitar building side that has taken more of my time now. Still like coming up with new ideas, more taking classic circuits and doing a little twist to it. My latest is a run of the mill Champ. Just decided I wanted both a Tweed and a BF in the same cabinet and did not want to do the basic tone lift switch. I wanted the Tweed tone control also and I wanted no extra knobs. Oh yeah, reverb but it will be SS.
So nothing really new, just put together a little differently. Crammed it in too small a chassis, we will see if it will squeal like a pig.
So yes we have our own stuff to work on but we like helping each other. On more than one occasion someone mentioned a missing connection or something on one of my schematics (and there has been no shortage of those, or switches). If we can do this stuff, sure you can.
Just now that about brings tears to my eyes- really moving, thank you.
I will work on figuring out how to post something. It's really a challenge in the limited time I have, and here I am spending my computer time geeking out over parts...
Tubelab I saw a thread where you described using mixed output tubes- I had a thing going with 6v6's and 6L6's in a friend's original design amp, that was really designed for four 6v6's. Some really beautiful and rich harmonics! Only too much for the little rectifier tube, and eating output tubes too... so I have attempted a design using two 6v6s and two KT88s, since I like KT88s ever so much more than 6L6's- my favorite vintage amps have been an Ampeg V2 modded to 6550's and Leslie amps with 6550's (for keys, not guitar, but what a lovely breakup).
I would love to have you take a look at my attempt to get the 6v6's and KT88's to play nice together- I found a load line that looks and feels promising for both, using a couple potential dividers to send each the appropriate screen voltage.
It would be very easy to pop this schematic in the snail mail if you (or anyone else) would like to take a look at it- that much I am currently capable of. Send me a PM with your mailing address if you'd like- until then I'll stumble along towards eventually getting something posted.
Ted
Ted,
living off the grid maybe you have not heard, but workable computers and scanners and stuff like that are just about free or free these days?
Internet access is another issue, not free, but LTSpice is a free download and runs by itself on a computer. You can simulate your brains out and get thoroughly frustrated and confused just fine all by yourself!
Then you can get these 16Gb thumbdrives now for 10bux, so you can bring almost everything you need back and forth to that library or wherever else there is free wifi at will, of course you could just use a laptop like I do, and it is with you all the time...
living off the grid maybe you have not heard, but workable computers and scanners and stuff like that are just about free or free these days?
Internet access is another issue, not free, but LTSpice is a free download and runs by itself on a computer. You can simulate your brains out and get thoroughly frustrated and confused just fine all by yourself!
Then you can get these 16Gb thumbdrives now for 10bux, so you can bring almost everything you need back and forth to that library or wherever else there is free wifi at will, of course you could just use a laptop like I do, and it is with you all the time...
Edit message -> click attachments -> upload file -> close window -> click arrow next to attachement -> just file you just uploaded.
I think you should post the schematic, as a first stepping stone.
Errors appear even in advanced designer's projects, that's why the schematic is only the first step out of many, and reviewing by peers is an accepted Scientific method of checking your ideas.
You will also need to decide on a layout, which by itself opens a whole new can of worms.
Then you must decide on which parts to use , tons of options for even the most unimportant one.
"Just use the best and don't worry about cost" ? ..... sorry, it doesn't work like that in the real World.
And then parts have *interaction* .
Parts which work "this way" when coupled to "A", work different when hooked to "B".
Am I trying to scare you?
Not at all, quite the contrary, but please be aware that designing is actually just one issue, then there's many others, with lots of interactive tweaking, until the definitive project starts to see the light.
Errors appear even in advanced designer's projects, that's why the schematic is only the first step out of many, and reviewing by peers is an accepted Scientific method of checking your ideas.
You will also need to decide on a layout, which by itself opens a whole new can of worms.
Then you must decide on which parts to use , tons of options for even the most unimportant one.
"Just use the best and don't worry about cost" ? ..... sorry, it doesn't work like that in the real World.
And then parts have *interaction* .
Parts which work "this way" when coupled to "A", work different when hooked to "B".
Am I trying to scare you?
Not at all, quite the contrary, but please be aware that designing is actually just one issue, then there's many others, with lots of interactive tweaking, until the definitive project starts to see the light.
Actually I don't have a computer on purpose- I did at one time, and it wasn't very healthy for me to spend too much time on it. I had a laptop (power-efficient for off-grid) and was doing computer recording, and it was absolutely hellish. Life was far, far better for me with a tape machine. My quality of life has been far better without a computer, and with a time crunch to use the library one as efficiently as possible. YMMV.
Funk1980, you just saved me a chunk of time right there. That helps a lot. Thank you!
I do have a layout worked up as well- very spacious in a 9.5" deep rackmount chassis (works with the trick animated cabinet nicely that way)- everything mounted to the sides or the top so one can pull the bottom and have it all pretty easily accessible. All the power supply stuff hard on one side, preamp hard on the other. I have to accomodate a motor for the animated cabinet, so all the controls are hard to one side or the other of the front panel.
I do actually have a DMM and have spent some time mucking about in a friend's amp- that was really really cramped in there. Lots of stuff just plain in the way of some of the mods I was looking at- a very well seasoned solderer could just about manage but hopeless for me. I intend to do this differently.
It really is overwhelming, the sheer amount of parts, but I have most of them pretty well narrowed down. I'm doubtless spending more on them than is strictly necessary, but I have become accustomed to using Grayhill switches and the like, and I very much notice the difference.
Thanks again.
Ted
Funk1980, you just saved me a chunk of time right there. That helps a lot. Thank you!
I do have a layout worked up as well- very spacious in a 9.5" deep rackmount chassis (works with the trick animated cabinet nicely that way)- everything mounted to the sides or the top so one can pull the bottom and have it all pretty easily accessible. All the power supply stuff hard on one side, preamp hard on the other. I have to accomodate a motor for the animated cabinet, so all the controls are hard to one side or the other of the front panel.
I do actually have a DMM and have spent some time mucking about in a friend's amp- that was really really cramped in there. Lots of stuff just plain in the way of some of the mods I was looking at- a very well seasoned solderer could just about manage but hopeless for me. I intend to do this differently.
It really is overwhelming, the sheer amount of parts, but I have most of them pretty well narrowed down. I'm doubtless spending more on them than is strictly necessary, but I have become accustomed to using Grayhill switches and the like, and I very much notice the difference.
Thanks again.
Ted
PM sent. Do not send me your originals, only copies since I am somewhat disorganized right now. I can look it over and post it here for others to review.
As for actively participating in things, my schedule is rather hectic and constantly changing. I still work the same full time engineering job I have had for over 40 years, and it requires 50 to 60 hour weeks to keep up some times.
Retirement is not far off, and I will be moving all the "stuff" that I have collected over 50 some years of tinkering with electricity. That means some serious downsizing. At one time we had 4 rental warehouses (my wife was the property manager), now we have none. I had over 100,000 tubes, now about 5,000. All the remaining "stuff" is in my house! Now you know why I am disorganized.
I have several projects that I have documented, and done "paper designs" often while sitting in hospital waiting rooms 1200 miles from home. My wife and I cared for her mother during her 5 year battle with cancer. During this time I took my laptop everywhere and laid out several boards. Here it is nearly 4 years later and the first of these boards has been made, and almost fully populated. It should finally see power this week. It's been far too long since I have had the time to actually tinker. I have a lot of my own designs to work through.....
I agree. The board I just built is "just another brick in the wall", one module in an amp design. Single preamp stages can be tested by feeding their output into a guitar amp. or old HiFi amp.
That started out as a dumb idea and worked out pretty well. The first few had a unique tone, but as with anything as the idea got out it's uniqueness wore off.
I started making guitar amps out of old TV parts before my teens. I had very little real knowledge about what I was doing, and my "tube sockets nailed to plywood" construction was not exactly safe, but I created several really wicked sounding amps. It wasn't until I went to a technical high school with 3 hours of electronics classes for 2 years (all tubes...it was the 60's) that I understood why the little tubes (6BQ6) rocked, but the big fat ones (6DQ6) glowed red and distorted.....that bias/load line stuff.
Before you or anyone goes messing around with tube stuff, read and understand the safety stuff posted on this forum, or my web site. I got zapped several times in my young years, and I am still here, but others aren't so lucky. One minor zap from an unpowered TV resulted in a trip to the ER, and a subsequent surgery to clear the infection. I still have a 2 inch scar on my arm 40+ years later.
Electrical Safety
My big amp idea?
Peavey bought out a European software company who created a rather unique virtual amp simulator. It has many modes, but one in particular got my attention. You play your guitar through it, while the schematic of a Peavey amp (a 5150 maybe?) appears on the screen. You can tweak parts values, voltages, and even tube types while listening to the result. OK, this is cool, but it is virtual. I want to do it in hardware. Yes a real amp, not a Peavey, but one of my own designs, with real tweakable hardware. Yes, this is a major undertaking, and there are obstacles to overcome just to keep it from blowing up when operated by a person who doesn't understand tube amps. Many people think I am nucking futs, but I believe I can do it, and therefore, I will. It probably won't happen while I still work full time, but my current "retirement" date estimate is just over a year away....but "stuff" happens.....
You can download the Revalver MKIII.V demo here:
Peavey.com
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