Acoustic amp replacement speaker:-
I have been looking for good info for a few days to no avail. This forum has been searched as well.
I play acoustic guitar only. Half of the time I need amplification. I've two acoustic amps: 1) Acoustic AG30 & 2) Crate Taxi 15 portable amp.
The AG30 is perfect and I felt in love with it on first sight (first try) in GC. However, it is heavy and difficult to haul around. I bought the Crate battery amp used. It sounds terrible. The sealed lead-acid battery needs replacement so I decided to do overhaul on it.
Upon some troubleshooting, I finally isolated the poor sound quality to the speaker. It has accordian surround, like those used in electric guitar or PA system. I confirmed it by moving the coax speaker from the AG30 over to the Crate and the sound becomes fantastic. The speaker from the AG30 is studio monitor style with rubber surround and a coax tweeter that chimes ! The problem is when I went to Acoustic's site, they said they don't sell parts.
I have search internet for a few days and can't find many speakers for acoustic guitar amps. I'm a HiFi guy so the sound quality is ultimately important. I played through the home stereo as well so I know the HiFi speakers are very close to the acoustic amp speakers. But everywhere I read, people recommend against using HiFi speakers for guitar amps. I know the guitar amp speakers are designed to allow high power handling.
Pretty much the only choice officially with acoustic replacement speaker is Eminence CX2008. However, the freq response of the speaker is only up to 3.5khz. The acoustic guitar may then sound a little muted. The Crate also has a cheap tweeter (I think is piezo). If I go for the CX2008, then I have to get a different tweeter, either Eminence coax APT-50 or just put a tweeter separately. Also, the CX2008 is 8 ohms while the original speaker is 4 ohms.
So the problem is I don't have a choice. Either the Eminence CX2008 or just try my luck with HiFi speakers. I have noticed there are quite a few 8" ceiling coax speakers. Are those good candidates? What are your thoughts ?
Tks. - AC
I have been looking for good info for a few days to no avail. This forum has been searched as well.
I play acoustic guitar only. Half of the time I need amplification. I've two acoustic amps: 1) Acoustic AG30 & 2) Crate Taxi 15 portable amp.
The AG30 is perfect and I felt in love with it on first sight (first try) in GC. However, it is heavy and difficult to haul around. I bought the Crate battery amp used. It sounds terrible. The sealed lead-acid battery needs replacement so I decided to do overhaul on it.
Upon some troubleshooting, I finally isolated the poor sound quality to the speaker. It has accordian surround, like those used in electric guitar or PA system. I confirmed it by moving the coax speaker from the AG30 over to the Crate and the sound becomes fantastic. The speaker from the AG30 is studio monitor style with rubber surround and a coax tweeter that chimes ! The problem is when I went to Acoustic's site, they said they don't sell parts.
I have search internet for a few days and can't find many speakers for acoustic guitar amps. I'm a HiFi guy so the sound quality is ultimately important. I played through the home stereo as well so I know the HiFi speakers are very close to the acoustic amp speakers. But everywhere I read, people recommend against using HiFi speakers for guitar amps. I know the guitar amp speakers are designed to allow high power handling.
Pretty much the only choice officially with acoustic replacement speaker is Eminence CX2008. However, the freq response of the speaker is only up to 3.5khz. The acoustic guitar may then sound a little muted. The Crate also has a cheap tweeter (I think is piezo). If I go for the CX2008, then I have to get a different tweeter, either Eminence coax APT-50 or just put a tweeter separately. Also, the CX2008 is 8 ohms while the original speaker is 4 ohms.
So the problem is I don't have a choice. Either the Eminence CX2008 or just try my luck with HiFi speakers. I have noticed there are quite a few 8" ceiling coax speakers. Are those good candidates? What are your thoughts ?
Tks. - AC
The advice to not use a HiFi speaker for guitar applies to electric guitar. That is because on electric guitar the speak is used to shape the tone. On an amplified acoustic the amp and speaker should not add much to the tone. It is really just a HiFi system. Or maybe closer to the PA a vocalist uses.
Well that's "close" the low E on your acoustic guitar is about 80Hz so the HiFi woofer would typically have to much bass,
I think one thing you might like is what they call a "full range" HiFi speaker. These are coaxial. Also you don't describe the enclosure. is it closed and ported or is the back open? This makes a huge difference is which speaker will "fit".
maybe something like this?
Madisound Speaker Store
But you don't say how much power it must handle and what diameter you need. But something like the above.
Thanks for reply, Chris.
The enclosure is a bass reflex design (ported). The amp is rated at 20W to 4ohms. Diameter is 8".
I think you're right that HiFi speaker can be used. Actually, I tried connect the speaker output to a regular 8 ohms two ways ported bookshelf speaker and it actually sounds very good. So I know the HiFi speaker and acoustic amp speaker appears to be interchangeable.
The speaker referred to in you link has a huge magnet !
While I was waiting for reply to my thread, I tried the Lanzar VX830 (8", 4ohms, 3ways coax). But it doesn't sound good enough. So this speaker is being returned.
Fostex is good but expensive though. Are there any other cheaper alternative ? I went to parts express but not seeing what I want.
-AC
The enclosure is a bass reflex design (ported). The amp is rated at 20W to 4ohms. Diameter is 8".
I think you're right that HiFi speaker can be used. Actually, I tried connect the speaker output to a regular 8 ohms two ways ported bookshelf speaker and it actually sounds very good. So I know the HiFi speaker and acoustic amp speaker appears to be interchangeable.
The speaker referred to in you link has a huge magnet !
While I was waiting for reply to my thread, I tried the Lanzar VX830 (8", 4ohms, 3ways coax). But it doesn't sound good enough. So this speaker is being returned.
Fostex is good but expensive though. Are there any other cheaper alternative ? I went to parts express but not seeing what I want.
-AC
Parts Express, I notice has a 8" "full range" for under $20. It's their own "Dayton" brand. But I suspect the quality is no match for the Fostex. The other good brand for full range is "Tang Band" but I think prices re about like Fostex.
Best to ask this question on the speaker forum. Tell people there (1) the size of the enclosure and the size of the port and the diameter of the speakers you need (2) that you don't give a hoot about bass below 80Hz and (3) you need a full range coax speaker. People there will know of one. That part about not needing bass makes the job easier and cheaper
I have also noticed some cheaper 8" full range there too but they seem to have a whizzer cone instead of a real tweeter. I saw they have a Dayton 8" 4 ohms reference series which is about $50 or so but with a separate tweeter and shipping, I might as well go for the Eminence CX2008 which is designed for acoustic guitar amp. I am thinking about those 8" ceiling speakers with a coax tweeter but not sure if I can find good quality ones since they are designed for auxillary background music mostly.
I will definitely try getting ideas from the speaker forum folks. Thanks.
-AC
I will definitely try getting ideas from the speaker forum folks. Thanks.
-AC
already tried the VX830 which was a 8" 4ohms, coax car speaker which, although sounded better than the factory, doesn't sound good enough for my application. The coax tweeters sticking out too much also making the grills unable to fit.
Spoke with parts express and the only thing they carry is this :-
Atlas Sound FA138
Atlas Sound - FA138
It fits into everything I needed but there is no reviews on PE. I couldn't find any reviews from internet either. The PE rep I spoke with said he has not listened to the speaker either so he couldn't say about sound quality. The Atlas web site claims "outstandng sound quality" so I think I'm going to give it a try.
AC
Atlas Sound FA138
Atlas Sound - FA138
It fits into everything I needed but there is no reviews on PE. I couldn't find any reviews from internet either. The PE rep I spoke with said he has not listened to the speaker either so he couldn't say about sound quality. The Atlas web site claims "outstandng sound quality" so I think I'm going to give it a try.
AC
Yeah, I've noticed that too, a little low on dBm. Beyma seems to be too expensive for me at the moment. I also found this on Amazon and this has lots of good reviews. Designed for ceiling use but I can yank out the speaker and the x'over from the frame to put them in my amp.
Amazon.com: Micca M-8C 8 Inch 2-Way In-Ceiling In-Wall Speaker with Pivoting 1" Silk Dome Tweeter (Each, White): Electronics
AC
Amazon.com: Micca M-8C 8 Inch 2-Way In-Ceiling In-Wall Speaker with Pivoting 1" Silk Dome Tweeter (Each, White): Electronics
AC
Just want to report here that I ended up with the Micca and have great result. The only thing is the Micca is slightly bigger that the original so I had to do a little bit of wood work to make it fit and flush.
I also have other accordian style 8" speakers and when comparing to the HiFi rubber surround type speakers, they are slightly smaller in diameter, probably by 1/8" in diameter. I'm not sure if this difference is industry standard between rubber surround and accordian design.
I also have other accordian style 8" speakers and when comparing to the HiFi rubber surround type speakers, they are slightly smaller in diameter, probably by 1/8" in diameter. I'm not sure if this difference is industry standard between rubber surround and accordian design.
I noticed your posting and wondered how your *experiment* with the TAXI amp mod came out? I have a TX30 and would like to improve the sound quality.
Thanks, in advance for any reply.
Sorry I've not checked my own thread for over a year. My reply is late but hope still useful to you.
I like the Micca speaker very much. It works perfectly. I have further mod'ed the amp by replacing all coupling capacitors with 2.2uF MKT type. Today I worked on the tone control circuit and replaced all three original caps (the originals were tiny caps, no bigger than the head of a match) in the tone control circuit with silver mica (2@) and one WIMA MKP. Every time I upgrade something, the amp sounds better. The amp now sounds very HiFi with my condenser mic with an ART tube preamp.
Now the last thing to be changed out is the input caps of the XLR circuit. The amp uses 10uF electrolytic non-polar caps. I can't find big enough MKT caps to replace them so I may have to parallel a few 2.2uF to make up the value. Being a 600 ohms circuit, the input caps are bigger than usual. I've searched here to no avail for info so I'm starting a new threat to ask for opinion.
How's your modding coming along ?
If you need 10uF film caps that car called "motor start capacitors" They are large, typically inside steel cans with wire less.
Another thought
I know this is an old thread, but I'm adding this for anyone who finds this with a search engine.
Another interesting option is the Betsy, from Wild Burro Audio. They are a tiny company with 2 products (Betsy and Betsy-K). Full range speaker, reasonably flat frequency response (+/- 3dB) from 80 Hz to about 1.2 kHz, and fairly well behaved above that. I'm likely going to try one and report the results here. Here's the link to Wild Burro's website:
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
Another nice thing is that the speakers are about $50 each, so you're dropping a couple of Jacksons and not a couple of Franklins for a full range speaker. If you have the big bucks and want full range, check out Audio Nirvana at:
Audio Nirvana Full-Range Speakers and 300B SET Amplifiers For Sale. The magic of full-range, high efficiency, DIY speaker kits with no crossover.
More to follow, hopefully.
Regards,
Martin
I know this is an old thread, but I'm adding this for anyone who finds this with a search engine.
Another interesting option is the Betsy, from Wild Burro Audio. They are a tiny company with 2 products (Betsy and Betsy-K). Full range speaker, reasonably flat frequency response (+/- 3dB) from 80 Hz to about 1.2 kHz, and fairly well behaved above that. I'm likely going to try one and report the results here. Here's the link to Wild Burro's website:
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
Another nice thing is that the speakers are about $50 each, so you're dropping a couple of Jacksons and not a couple of Franklins for a full range speaker. If you have the big bucks and want full range, check out Audio Nirvana at:
Audio Nirvana Full-Range Speakers and 300B SET Amplifiers For Sale. The magic of full-range, high efficiency, DIY speaker kits with no crossover.
More to follow, hopefully.
Regards,
Martin
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