well . here it goes . i'd like to build an amp that eats TV tubes for breakfast .so i was thinking what kills a tube in the fastest manner possible ?
it would be fun putting a lot of tv tubes on the edge at lowish voltages and high current maybye you could use a 20-20Vac transformer to get near 50 volts of plate supply also use it to supply the heater current
it seems that if you use a PL84 at 50 volts B+ whit zero grid bias . it will draw 300Ma in idle conditions something like five of these paralel should be able to supply current no output transformer ofcourse and some crappy speaker as a lamb to the slaughter
input stage could be anything pcf i have a TON of these not really useful for anything
anyone have any ideas to make something fun out of these box filling space wasting P valves ?
it would be fun putting a lot of tv tubes on the edge at lowish voltages and high current maybye you could use a 20-20Vac transformer to get near 50 volts of plate supply also use it to supply the heater current
it seems that if you use a PL84 at 50 volts B+ whit zero grid bias . it will draw 300Ma in idle conditions something like five of these paralel should be able to supply current no output transformer ofcourse and some crappy speaker as a lamb to the slaughter
input stage could be anything pcf i have a TON of these not really useful for anything
anyone have any ideas to make something fun out of these box filling space wasting P valves ?
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It's usually the floor!
IF you think all of the P valves are wasting your space, we can work out a trade since I have made a rather nice sounding 18 watt guitar amp with them that doesn't eat tubes.
Try 320 volts on the plate and 160 on the screen with cathode bias using a 150 ohm resistor for both tubes and a 6600 P-P OPT.
The amp was designed for this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/instruments-amps/190738-hundred-buck-amp-challenge.html
The preliminary schematic is in post# 794. It has been modified a lot since then/ I will post a new one when I have time.
OK, the PL84 is a 300 mA. series string version of the EL84/6BQ5. Build an "El Cheapo" variant with a 300 mA. series heater string. 
4X PL84s "eat" 60 V. A pair of 12AT7/ECC81s "eat" 12.6 V. at 300 mA. Finally, a 6AL5 eats 6.3 V. That leaves 41.1 V. to drop, assuming North American power mains. You could get "cute" and use a capacitance, instead of a resistance, as the dropping element.
4X PL84s "eat" 60 V. A pair of 12AT7/ECC81s "eat" 12.6 V. at 300 mA. Finally, a 6AL5 eats 6.3 V. That leaves 41.1 V. to drop, assuming North American power mains. You could get "cute" and use a capacitance, instead of a resistance, as the dropping element.
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Wrong . the PL84 is a series variant of the EL86 a low resistance low voltage pentode two el86 used to drive some odd 800 ohm speakers
the only thing telling a series tube and a E tube apart is the more rugged as in Thicker heater in a series variant .
cathode insulation is also exeptionally good whit 250volts quoted in alot of datasheets
and if anyone need some i have used examples . i can test for cathode emission
the only thing telling a series tube and a E tube apart is the more rugged as in Thicker heater in a series variant .
cathode insulation is also exeptionally good whit 250volts quoted in alot of datasheets
and if anyone need some i have used examples . i can test for cathode emission
I should have looked at the data sheets closely. This is another case of inconsistency, like 6L6/50L6.
OK, no "El Cheapo". However, the PP AB1 setup and 300 mA. series heater string ideas remain valid. Bridge rectifying a Triad N-68X isolation trafo will take care of B+, quite well. Scott/Dyna style circuitry should do. How about a 6AU6 voltage amplifier DC coupled to a ZVN0545A "concertina" phase splitter, for the small signal stuff. 0B2 regulating PL84 g2 B+ would improve open loop linearity.
OK, no "El Cheapo". However, the PP AB1 setup and 300 mA. series heater string ideas remain valid. Bridge rectifying a Triad N-68X isolation trafo will take care of B+, quite well. Scott/Dyna style circuitry should do. How about a 6AU6 voltage amplifier DC coupled to a ZVN0545A "concertina" phase splitter, for the small signal stuff. 0B2 regulating PL84 g2 B+ would improve open loop linearity.
I picked up a few to use in a SE amp that have 1100 ohm primaries which I was going to double by using 16 ohm speakers. That might change when I see your circuit. 320V on the plate? And I thought Fender had a thing for going over voltage. Thinking about it, does the amp sound similar to a EL84 stuffed amp? Have you tried it at lower voltages in p-p with lower primary impedance?
I messed up since I am not used to the European tube numbering system. My amp does not use P valves, it uses U valves. Either way the output stage is the same. First off the numbers:
EL84 = 6BQ5
XL84 = 8BQ5 which is an 8 volt 6BQ5
I have seen 10BQ5's but do not know the european number. They are not common. I have never seen a 15BQ5.
EL86 = 6CW5
XL86 = 8CW5 which is an 8 volt 6CW5
LL86 = 10CW5 which is a 10 volt 6CW5
PL84 = 15CW5 which is a 15 volt 6CW5. It is NOT an EL84 variant.
UL84 = 45B5 which is a 45 volt 6CW5. It is NOT an EL84 variant.
A 6CW5 looks like an EL84 and does indeed have the same plate structure. The screen grids are different, with very different ratings. Plugging a 6CW5 into an EL84 socket will result in tube meltdown with possible other fried parts.
OK, so we all know how to make EL84's and their variants work. Many amplifiers did indeed violate the plate voltage on EL84's often by a lot. I have seen ads for a HiFi amp that claims to run them at 700 volts! The trick to avoiding nuclear meltdown with these tubes is to keep the screen voltage under 320 volts, and even lower if you abuse the plate.
Well the 6CW5 family has different ratings, but responds the same way.
Yes, I have building my SPP HiFi amps with 6CW5's and I run about 235 volts on plate and screen with a 3300 ohm load for about 15 watts of good clean power. With the guitar amp experiments in the HBAC thread I found that it sounds more like a screaming EL84 if you feed it like one. THis means more volts and more ohms. I use 320 volts on the plate because that is easy to get with a voltage doubler on an isolation transformer. To avoid meltdown at that plate voltage the screen must be lower, again 160 volts is easy to get, so that's what I used. More power can be had with the plate around 400 volts and the screen at 125 or so. I haven't blown one up yet so I don't know where the limit is.
The output stage and PI hasn't change since I posted that schematic. I am just tweaking the uber gain stages in the preamp. Again U tubes UCC85's.
EL84 = 6BQ5
XL84 = 8BQ5 which is an 8 volt 6BQ5
I have seen 10BQ5's but do not know the european number. They are not common. I have never seen a 15BQ5.
EL86 = 6CW5
XL86 = 8CW5 which is an 8 volt 6CW5
LL86 = 10CW5 which is a 10 volt 6CW5
PL84 = 15CW5 which is a 15 volt 6CW5. It is NOT an EL84 variant.
UL84 = 45B5 which is a 45 volt 6CW5. It is NOT an EL84 variant.
A 6CW5 looks like an EL84 and does indeed have the same plate structure. The screen grids are different, with very different ratings. Plugging a 6CW5 into an EL84 socket will result in tube meltdown with possible other fried parts.
OK, so we all know how to make EL84's and their variants work. Many amplifiers did indeed violate the plate voltage on EL84's often by a lot. I have seen ads for a HiFi amp that claims to run them at 700 volts! The trick to avoiding nuclear meltdown with these tubes is to keep the screen voltage under 320 volts, and even lower if you abuse the plate.
Well the 6CW5 family has different ratings, but responds the same way.
Yes, I have building my SPP HiFi amps with 6CW5's and I run about 235 volts on plate and screen with a 3300 ohm load for about 15 watts of good clean power. With the guitar amp experiments in the HBAC thread I found that it sounds more like a screaming EL84 if you feed it like one. THis means more volts and more ohms. I use 320 volts on the plate because that is easy to get with a voltage doubler on an isolation transformer. To avoid meltdown at that plate voltage the screen must be lower, again 160 volts is easy to get, so that's what I used. More power can be had with the plate around 400 volts and the screen at 125 or so. I haven't blown one up yet so I don't know where the limit is.
The output stage and PI hasn't change since I posted that schematic. I am just tweaking the uber gain stages in the preamp. Again U tubes UCC85's.
here's a nice site whit datasheets on european tubes John's Radio Web edit might want to put it through google translate exelent info on european tubes in the P and E directory if you need help acquiring them i might be of assistance whole BOXES full of tv tubes show up localy and cheap
edit anyone want to experiment whit PCF80 802 ? 82 triode/ penthodes wich are available for almost nothing
edit anyone want to experiment whit PCF80 802 ? 82 triode/ penthodes wich are available for almost nothing
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becourse you can no im just curious if you can discover another kind of sonics from the cathode bending under stress grids melting and becourse everytime i buy a €10 tube box i get a resupply of aprox 10 PL84 20 PCF 80
hmm what about rectification whit PY88'S few milliamps will make a nice red plate ive got a 25/25 tranny hovering around my room somewhere ....
no im just curious if you can discover another kind of sonics from the cathode bending under stress grids melting and becourse everytime i buy a €10 tube box i get a resupply of aprox 10 PL84 20 PCF 80hmm what about rectification whit PY88'S few milliamps will make a nice red plate ive got a 25/25 tranny hovering around my room somewhere ....
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