I'm sure many of us have built our own distortion pedals, and there are tons of circuits out there. But I'd like some opinions on what goes into making a particular kind of guitar crunch/distortion. I'll tell you what *I* think too, but I could be way off base. I've plenty of different pedals that do the full range from mild overdrive to slight crunch through all out searing wails. But through that whole range there's still something missing. Often when I listen to guitar crunch that I really like, I can hear the crisp clang of the metal strings ringing, especially on chords, even though there is solid distortion or overdrive. I don't hear that with the distortion in my boss multi-effects pedal.
What I'm thinking is that there should be compression, followed by a split signal path, where one split goes through the distortion and the other doesn't, and the two are later blended. It seems to me that many many years ago, I used to see a "blend" control on some floor distortion pedals, but not lately. But do you think I'm on to something here? Could a blend like that help get me the sound I'm looking for?
What I'm thinking is that there should be compression, followed by a split signal path, where one split goes through the distortion and the other doesn't, and the two are later blended. It seems to me that many many years ago, I used to see a "blend" control on some floor distortion pedals, but not lately. But do you think I'm on to something here? Could a blend like that help get me the sound I'm looking for?
Yes- My guitar player friend who has decades of devotion to the art of guitar playing, likes to say he uses "digital effects" as he waves his fingers in the air.
A good amp is often in compression when its making the best sounds. Im wih Niugel, Boxes up front are not the same as distortion in the amp itself.My 2 Cents
Well not that it means anything coming from ME <ggg> but I'm a pretty decent player, and have been a player, listener, and dabbled in making effects for a good 40 years (probably my first electronic project for music was turning some amplifier circuit borrowed from some old radio to create a make shift "fuzz box", but I digress. ). I guess my point is, the question I pose would be different if it were coming from someone less experienced. For the record, I'd be the first to agree about getting great sound pushing a big old tube amp. I have here a Peavey MACE series amp with 2 x 12" Black Widow speakers ( whose magnets are almost as big as the speakers themselves) and an output stage using 6L6 tubes, for a total of 150wRMS. I also have a 1972 Gibson Deluxe model Les Paul, and I mention all that to explain that when I jack my guitar into that amp and crank it, I have NO complaints or issues whatsoever with that sound. And if I need a little more crunch, just about any dirt cheap box will more than compensate.
NOW...all that said, moving that amp (which weighs in at nearly 100lbs, or at least feels like it does) is just not an option anymore. These days, for a variety of reasons, my guitar goes into my floor pedals and then goes right to the mixing board. Put in THAT context, I'm sure you can better understand why I want to use every technical trick in the book to improve the sound quality as much as is feasible. I *DID* find a used Rolland VG-8 on an ebay sale that required me to put one of those hex pickups on my guitar to use it. The thing is huge and heavy, but was barley over $100 compared to more than 10x that for the latest version (which of course is small and light). That VG8 convinced me in a hurry that technology does exist to actually give me something pretty darn close to an overdriven marshal stack (or several other amp models), using digital technology, so I'm a believer. So I'm just always looking for ways to make SOME improvements to my lighter and more portable analog gig setup, where I'm forced to just play through a mix board.
There's no question that if I could magically multiply my talent, or could go back to moving big amplifiers, it might make my post unnecessary. But I also believe that another talent available to me is my understanding of electronics and audio, and was seeking other like minded musicians who were also DIY'rs, to see what improvements I could make to what I have.
NOW...all that said, moving that amp (which weighs in at nearly 100lbs, or at least feels like it does) is just not an option anymore. These days, for a variety of reasons, my guitar goes into my floor pedals and then goes right to the mixing board. Put in THAT context, I'm sure you can better understand why I want to use every technical trick in the book to improve the sound quality as much as is feasible. I *DID* find a used Rolland VG-8 on an ebay sale that required me to put one of those hex pickups on my guitar to use it. The thing is huge and heavy, but was barley over $100 compared to more than 10x that for the latest version (which of course is small and light). That VG8 convinced me in a hurry that technology does exist to actually give me something pretty darn close to an overdriven marshal stack (or several other amp models), using digital technology, so I'm a believer. So I'm just always looking for ways to make SOME improvements to my lighter and more portable analog gig setup, where I'm forced to just play through a mix board.
There's no question that if I could magically multiply my talent, or could go back to moving big amplifiers, it might make my post unnecessary. But I also believe that another talent available to me is my understanding of electronics and audio, and was seeking other like minded musicians who were also DIY'rs, to see what improvements I could make to what I have.
compression placement
Hey there!
Just rereading your original post a few times, I'm thinking that maybe the compression should be split as well, and maybe if your mixing board (or the clubs) allows, you could even use two phases of it?
I may be crazy, but it seems like distortion has more harmonic character than a clean guitar signal, and if you could use two phases of compression - one previous to distortion and one after, you could emphasize the harmonics and make it sing! ? !
I am crazy. And I know that many fuzz/distorto pedals provide compression before output, often without any user control, so this might not be applicable to what you are using or going for. And your unit may provide the same effect just by you putting the compression in front of it.
In regard to your "splitting" and "blending" - I use two amps, one a clean Pro Reverb and the other a Frankenamp that I boost into distortion and otherwise use for an effects amp. I like to blend clean and distorted. I also like the spatial effects of one signal being modified while the other stays the same.
Anyway, just a couple of ideas.
Hey there!
Just rereading your original post a few times, I'm thinking that maybe the compression should be split as well, and maybe if your mixing board (or the clubs) allows, you could even use two phases of it?
I may be crazy, but it seems like distortion has more harmonic character than a clean guitar signal, and if you could use two phases of compression - one previous to distortion and one after, you could emphasize the harmonics and make it sing! ? !
I am crazy. And I know that many fuzz/distorto pedals provide compression before output, often without any user control, so this might not be applicable to what you are using or going for. And your unit may provide the same effect just by you putting the compression in front of it.
In regard to your "splitting" and "blending" - I use two amps, one a clean Pro Reverb and the other a Frankenamp that I boost into distortion and otherwise use for an effects amp. I like to blend clean and distorted. I also like the spatial effects of one signal being modified while the other stays the same.
Anyway, just a couple of ideas.
I found a circuit many years ago I think in wireless world for a soft limiter.
This circuit emulates valve distortion.
It basically uses an op amp stage with transistors in the feedback loop with level set by a pot. I was very impressed with the sound and it gives sustain too.
I added a high boost stage after it and it was very good.
This circuit emulates valve distortion.
It basically uses an op amp stage with transistors in the feedback loop with level set by a pot. I was very impressed with the sound and it gives sustain too.
I added a high boost stage after it and it was very good.
I built one of these for a friend. Its one input and two out's with each side out buffered by 1/2 of an 12AX7, and some level controls to set the balance. It goes between the gitar and two amp's. The input and output impeadance is on the order of 1M so it is reasonablly transparent, but we both believe it beats the heck out of just patching from one amp to the other. I call it the" F-tube". The idea is to set up one amp for a sound that it is good at , and the other for it's sound. This help's address the problem of the "one trick pony" that plagues so many amp's. This is not a stomp box, but one could of course put the effects device after this
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To the OP, I think one aspect of a distortion circuit that "lets the tone through" is high-pass filtering, the lowering of the string fudamental frequencies as compared to the harmonics. In a classic tube amplifier the signal goes through the tone controls and THEN gets clipped/distorted by the output stage. If you turn the bass up you get hard clipping from the fundamental frequencies which dominate. If you CUT the bass (and maybe midrange, depending on what controls you have and how they change frequency response), the fundamentals and harmonics are more nearly equal in volume, and much more of the "tone" of the guitar comes through even when the output is driven into clipping.
So having a "tone control stack" or maybe an equalizer between the guitar and the clipping circuit (with of course a high-impedance buffer between the guitar and the EQ) may help get closer to the sound you're looking for.
I got a guitar at a recent yard sale, and with it came a small Peavey amp, model "Rage 158." It says "transtube" on it - this is the Peavey distortion circuit I've read about in the late '90's in Electronic Engineering Times that supposedly emulates the distortion sound of a vacuum tube guitar amp. I suppose it sounds okay, though I wish I had Fender tube amp to compare it with.
A little googling about this transtube stuff got me to a general description of the circuitry, specifically the "chapter 3" pdf at this page:
Peavey.com
Mr. Peavey is exceptionally wordy and goes on tangents, but he tells what he thinks are the characteristics of tube distortion that need to be emulated in solid-state to make the same sound.
I've got my own ideas about how to make solid-state "soft clipping" circuits, and even though this may not emulate a tube sound, it may still be an "interesting" distortion for guitar.. I've got one made, I don't know if I like how it sounds and responds or not, but it IS different and I want to do more research and tweaking.
So having a "tone control stack" or maybe an equalizer between the guitar and the clipping circuit (with of course a high-impedance buffer between the guitar and the EQ) may help get closer to the sound you're looking for.
I got a guitar at a recent yard sale, and with it came a small Peavey amp, model "Rage 158." It says "transtube" on it - this is the Peavey distortion circuit I've read about in the late '90's in Electronic Engineering Times that supposedly emulates the distortion sound of a vacuum tube guitar amp. I suppose it sounds okay, though I wish I had Fender tube amp to compare it with.
A little googling about this transtube stuff got me to a general description of the circuitry, specifically the "chapter 3" pdf at this page:
Peavey.com
Mr. Peavey is exceptionally wordy and goes on tangents, but he tells what he thinks are the characteristics of tube distortion that need to be emulated in solid-state to make the same sound.
I've got my own ideas about how to make solid-state "soft clipping" circuits, and even though this may not emulate a tube sound, it may still be an "interesting" distortion for guitar.. I've got one made, I don't know if I like how it sounds and responds or not, but it IS different and I want to do more research and tweaking.
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You should compare it to a high-gain Marshall. The Rage won't do Blackface tones, but it does a darn good job of copping the sound on "Eruption". The bigger Transtube amps, with resonance and damping controls, get even closer to the 'feel' of a tube amp.
Here's another guy that has given some thought to the problem:
Blackstone Appliances - guitar overdrive devices
Anything that generates distortion by clipping the signal is going to cause compression. Rather than a compressor in parallel with a fuzz, you might try two distortion boxes with different settings in parallel.
Thanks for mentioning the "f-tube", that explains why I don't like daisy-chaining my amps.
A Small Amp Perhaps?
Perhaps one of the small amps like Dr. Z mini-Z, Swart Atomic Space Tone, etc. or even the z.vex Nano Head? They are light, and have great tube distortion. Also, if you can give some examples of the sound that you are looking for, we can try and come up with more suggestions for you.
Jaz
Perhaps one of the small amps like Dr. Z mini-Z, Swart Atomic Space Tone, etc. or even the z.vex Nano Head? They are light, and have great tube distortion. Also, if you can give some examples of the sound that you are looking for, we can try and come up with more suggestions for you.
Jaz
Look at the TC electronics Nova Drive, two separate drive and distortion circuits that can be either switched in parallel, series or one at a time. And MIDI controllabel.
TC Electronic | Nova Drive
TC Electronic | Nova Drive
the best thing ive ever made (in the spectrum of tube emulation) is a common-emitter bjt boost, followed by a common source jfet boost w/o ac bypass cap across the source resistor, then a jfet source follower, and lastly another common emitter bjt with blue led's as soft clipping diodes so that the characteristics of the overdriven jfets aren't diminished by saturating the last transistor. it's not quite the full tube sound, but the distortion is similar and i suppose could be helped with some lowpass filtering. and i haven't tried it with guitar, but it is VERY nice on bass.
Have you come up with something usable yet? You may also want to check out Amptone, lots of things there, especially with regards to pre and post distortion EQ, preamp vs power amp distortion characteristics, etc. I think the site has not been updated for quite sometime, but it does have lots of good info.
Jaz
Fuzzlab Junior - lots of knobs for you to play with, a nice DIY example here: http://www.beavisaudio.com/Projects/FuzzLab/FuzzlabJunior.jpg
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