Thanks Trout & ChrisA, I'll give those a try.
I'm back on hoping to work on the amp this weekend. I've got to turn a collet for a plunge router to work on the cabinet. I have to get it set up before I start work on a chassis.
Granddaughter is moving in this weekend ;^}, have to wait to see if it is perminant.
I'm back on hoping to work on the amp this weekend. I've got to turn a collet for a plunge router to work on the cabinet. I have to get it set up before I start work on a chassis.
Granddaughter is moving in this weekend ;^}, have to wait to see if it is perminant.
I agree. The only way to demo a guitar amp is with a guitar as the input device. Other types of signals, ie. preamp, soundcard, will not have the same voltage, impedance, inductance, or capacitance as a guitar signal.
You are right. The only thing that is EXACTLY like a guitar is a guitar. But I don't think it matters. But even if it don't mater still you should have one. (can I be more un-clear? I think so, see below)
I've experimented with "re-ampping" and it works well-enough. Re-amp means you put the guitar signal into a computer, plug the guitar directly into the audio interface's "instrument jack". Then apply some software simulation, maybe of some effects pedal you don't own or even of an amp you don't own. then the signal goes out the computer's interface to the "real" guitar amp or to a clean PA or Stereo amp. The computer takes the place of some physical gear. What people do is run the simulated guitar amp out to speakers and at the same time record the clean guitar sound, so later they can "re-amp" the performance, that is run the sound through another amp (either simulated or physical) for recording later. This allows tweaks that you thought of only in hindsight and some editing too. (a.k.a "cheating"). It's called "re-amp" because the final recording is made through a different amp then what was heard during the recording session.
Point is that it's common to use computer recordings and I bet you've heard the result in lots of pop/rock music and did not notice.
The other argument for not needing to exactly simulate a guitar is that in most cases guitar players don't actually plug their guitar into the amp, they plug into a pedal or two or five and then these plug into the amp. The pedal is typically a MUCH lower impedance than a guitar and the output voltage is adjustable with a knob. Pedals are (mostly) op-amps and so will have outputs like you'd expect from an op-amp (some exceptions exist. A few use pre-amp tubes or small signal transistors or a mix)
If not a pedal then if you go to any larger concert where the stage is large you might see that the guitarist is playing into a "DI Box". This is a little 4" square gadget that takes the guitar signal and turns it into a low (600 ohm) balanced signal and puts it into an XLR cable. The reason is that a 1/4" guitar cable sounds bad if it's more than about 20 feet long so they use either a DI box or (more likely recently) a wireless transmitter. Either way the amp does not connect directly to a guitar
In fact I'd say it is the exception for a professional performance to have a guitar directly jacked to the amp. Sad, I know. But DI boxes, pedals, computers and DSP sims or pedals and radio links are more common. With small bar bands pedals are the most common thing plugged into an amp. Even jazz players. I've seen some who use stereo amps and delay or stereo reverb.
All that said, just buy one of these, new for $120 or used for about $85
Squier Bullet Stratocaster HSS Electric Guitar with Tremolo and more Solid Body Electric Guitars at GuitarCenter.com.
You can learn how to play well enough to make music-like noises in a couple weeks.
Even if you buy it new yuo can un-load it for $85 later and the cost to own it is only $35. If you buy used you can sell for what you paid and the cost to own is zero. I can't imagine building a guitar amp and not having a guitar handy so I could play a few notes or chords through the amp.
Leo Fender designed a lot of amps and he never really learned how to play guitar. music-like noise is enough to support amp development and checkout.
I agree with everything you said. I've used all of the techniques you have listed.
I believe however that for the purposes of THIS particular challenge, any pre-processing, effects pedals, direct box, etc., used between the guitar and the amp, or in lieu of a guitar, does not meet the criteria of the challenge. The first post of this thread states that the signal stages must be all tube. Even though these devices are outboard and not part of the amp, most use solid state components, and that will not let the true sound of the amp be judged fairly.
Even if a person doesn't own a guitar or know how to play, I can't imagine that they would not know someone or know someone who knows someone that would not be willing to strum a few chords through their amp.
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Just stumbled onto this, but have not read too far into it. Might be what we're looking for as far as standard tracks go:
Reamp Project: Direct/dry guitar samples and amp Tone reference library
I've read quite a bit there and can't find any actual samples, lol!
Lots of links here:
http://www.amptone.com/index.html#reamp
Reamp Project: Direct/dry guitar samples and amp Tone reference library
I've read quite a bit there and can't find any actual samples, lol!
Lots of links here:
http://www.amptone.com/index.html#reamp
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Irene chose NOT to move in today. The huricane slipped quietly past us today with less wind and rain than some summer storms.It doesn't look good for the Carolinas though. It might be clear enough this weekend to work on the speakers.
I grabbed a screen shot of the local TV weather radar about 1/2 hour ago. The radar only sees the western half of the storm. The eye is just to the east of the "h" in West Palm Beach. I am currently in that clear spot betewwn Miami and WPB so its time to go home (I am at work).
Attachments
I built a number of amps before I bought a guitar and learned to make some noise. It's true - there is hardly a way to simulate that signal. I worked on a way to transform the output of a signal generator (300 ohm) up to 1 M or so but it still wasent the same same with a CD player or soundcard. There is a place in this world for 100 dollar Tiwan Strats.
Back in the TUBES forum someone posted a link to a practice amp that fits the bill just right:
The Champ CBA-20807 1000 Watt Amplifier - Part 1
The Champ CBA-20807 1000 Watt Amplifier - Part 1
How it can be Champ if it is push-pull?
Champ with kilowatt output can't be powered from standard 120V power outlet. But it is possible to feed a kilowatt class D amp from output of an usual 2-tube Champ.
That's just plain absurd. I can make the neighbors complain with 30WPC. Even if I needed 1000W (most likely an RF rig anyway) I sure wouldn't parallel up essss-loads of 807s. I'd use one of the higher powered RF finals for that.
We Need Common Soundclips For Testing
Your clip sounds pretty nice, already better sound than my cheapo Princeton/AmpliG5 kit...
I read the same site as well, it seems that it has not been updated for awhile, but the author does make a persuasive argument for re-amping.
I think most of us would agree that the final test must be with a guitar input, but given all the variables involved, how can we or the judges decide which amp is a winner unless there is common input source(s)? Say one clip with Fender-type single-coil pickup and another with Gibson-type humbucker pickup, played by a competent player or agree on a few clean clips available from the net, as the source material.
The speaker output then can be recorded with a Shure SM57 (I think most of us have one or access to one) going into a pro or pro-sumer soundcard (another can of worms I know, but I think most can deliver good enough recording without screwing it up too much). Convert the the recorded clips into MP3, again with a standardized LAME setting, so they can be judged on relative equal footing since we have eliminated quite a few of the variables in the all over signal chain.
Jaz
Your clip sounds pretty nice, already better sound than my cheapo Princeton/AmpliG5 kit...
I read the same site as well, it seems that it has not been updated for awhile, but the author does make a persuasive argument for re-amping.
I think most of us would agree that the final test must be with a guitar input, but given all the variables involved, how can we or the judges decide which amp is a winner unless there is common input source(s)? Say one clip with Fender-type single-coil pickup and another with Gibson-type humbucker pickup, played by a competent player or agree on a few clean clips available from the net, as the source material.
The speaker output then can be recorded with a Shure SM57 (I think most of us have one or access to one) going into a pro or pro-sumer soundcard (another can of worms I know, but I think most can deliver good enough recording without screwing it up too much). Convert the the recorded clips into MP3, again with a standardized LAME setting, so they can be judged on relative equal footing since we have eliminated quite a few of the variables in the all over signal chain.
Jaz
The name of the company is Champ Electronics. This is the second 1 KW guitar amp they have made. I think that a 1 KW SE tube amp would be rather difficult to lift. The OPT would weigh about 50 pounds!
Champ Electronics is located in a 230 volt country.
Really LOUD ones!
Sometimes you do it just because you can.
Well If I needed a Killowatt or so at frequencies up to 175 MHz I would use a handfull of MRF150's.
I wouldn't use 807's either but the builder stated that he had a fascination with that tube so that's what he used for this one. The last one used 4 X 813's which is more realistic.
I am going to build a big one some day, just because I can. I have a pair of 400 watt at 20 Hz Plitron toroidal OPT's that have spent far too much time doing nothing useful. They need to be put to good use. What tubes?????? Its certain that they will be some combination of BAST's. (Big *** Sweep Tube) I don't know which one yet though.
Some Dry Sound Clips
Some dry guitar clips:
www.benreuters.de/qian/Clean.mp3
www.benreuters.de/qian/Clean1.mp3
www.faderwear.com/guides/files/re-amp/Guitar_DI_Track.mp3
www.lyricaldistortion.com/Demos/exposed_clean_guitar.mp3
I am sure there are many more worth considering...
Jaz
Some dry guitar clips:
www.benreuters.de/qian/Clean.mp3
www.benreuters.de/qian/Clean1.mp3
www.faderwear.com/guides/files/re-amp/Guitar_DI_Track.mp3
www.lyricaldistortion.com/Demos/exposed_clean_guitar.mp3
I am sure there are many more worth considering...
Jaz
6AF11 Sound clip
6AF11 guitar amp.
Guitars used: G&L Legacy, Agile Les Paul copy
Speaker cabinet: 8 ohm, 2 -12" Celestion V30 clones
Recorded with a Panasonic DMC-FZ35 Lumix using the on-device microphone.
The hum heard at the beginning is from the G&L single coil pickups, not the amp.
The cost would come in under $100 if using a solid state PS instead of the 6CA4, or maybe even a 6X4, and a less expensive PT. Antek makes a toroid that would work.
6AF11amp - YouTube
6AF11 guitar amp.
Guitars used: G&L Legacy, Agile Les Paul copy
Speaker cabinet: 8 ohm, 2 -12" Celestion V30 clones
Recorded with a Panasonic DMC-FZ35 Lumix using the on-device microphone.
The hum heard at the beginning is from the G&L single coil pickups, not the amp.
The cost would come in under $100 if using a solid state PS instead of the 6CA4, or maybe even a 6X4, and a less expensive PT. Antek makes a toroid that would work.
6AF11amp - YouTube
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Do you have the OT in the chassis? Sounds good. Is that dimed or is there more gain on tap? I used a compactron in an amp once and found it would be on the verge of squealing at full gain. Mind you I did not spend enough time on it. I may have to go revisit it again sometime.
That certainly sounds livable to me. I am going to have to pull my socks up.
Yes the OT is in the chassis.
That was cranked full, pentode mode, no negative feedback. There is a switch to turn on feedback and it will clean up a bit when cranked full. It also runs in the triode mode. I did not switch to either of those options in the clip.
It took a quite a few iterations to eliminate the squealing oscillation but I finally got it out of there.