Hi
I want to make a stripped down Vox AC15 amplifier and need some speaker advice.
Seems the Celestion G12 Blue (alnico) is all the rage but what do all these G12 speakers sound like?
Are they clear and linear like a hifi speaker?
The Vintage 30 sounds like it has a good midbass response and rolled off highs.
Are there any recommendations?
Thanks
Tom
I want to make a stripped down Vox AC15 amplifier and need some speaker advice.
Seems the Celestion G12 Blue (alnico) is all the rage but what do all these G12 speakers sound like?
Are they clear and linear like a hifi speaker?
The Vintage 30 sounds like it has a good midbass response and rolled off highs.
Are there any recommendations?
Thanks
Tom
I'm thinking of using existing 12ax7 preamp and el84 push pull amp I got here. Don't want to rebuild with the EF86 if I can get away with it.
No tremolo or reverb stage.
And a single 12" Celestion Vintage 30 speaker sounds like the sound I want sort of vintage Jimmy Page.
Celestron Blue are way too expensive for me and the V30 does the trick based on the videos.
No tremolo or reverb stage.
And a single 12" Celestion Vintage 30 speaker sounds like the sound I want sort of vintage Jimmy Page.
Celestron Blue are way too expensive for me and the V30 does the trick based on the videos.
The Celestion Blue predates hifi and was meant for console radios. It's a major part of the Vox sound, and while pricy, it's one of the few speakers that have that chime.
Same is true for the EF86. If you use a 12AX7 and a V30, you're going to build more of a Marshall than a Vox.
You might try one of the Wharfdales Vox now imports from China. The other suggestion would be a Weber ceramic version of the Blue, called the Blue Dog.
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/
I'm a big fan of the alnico sound, however, and for a Vox clone I'd use one of these:
12" Black & Blue alnico - 15 Watts | Warehouse Guitar Speaker
Costs more than the ceramics, but not as much as a Celestion. But it definitely has the chime and compression that's part of the signature Vox tone.
Same is true for the EF86. If you use a 12AX7 and a V30, you're going to build more of a Marshall than a Vox.
You might try one of the Wharfdales Vox now imports from China. The other suggestion would be a Weber ceramic version of the Blue, called the Blue Dog.
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/
I'm a big fan of the alnico sound, however, and for a Vox clone I'd use one of these:
12" Black & Blue alnico - 15 Watts | Warehouse Guitar Speaker
Costs more than the ceramics, but not as much as a Celestion. But it definitely has the chime and compression that's part of the signature Vox tone.
Don't most combos usually run on 8 ohms ?
But in my opinion , 2 speakers is and are always louder then 1 speaker , depends on what you like ...
i know i have no place here thanks to my hate for tubes , but still , i can talk speakers .
That said , i prefer the sound of modern speakers with high efficiency .
Maybe back then the best sounding were low power , celestion's . ( Yes i hate celestion ) .
The reason why most combos and cabs were open back , because woofers are really bassy , and i can attune for that , my combo , a 30W has a 10' and is really bassy and is a sealed box . ( in fact it has nearly no top-end due to being 1 woofer only w/o a single tweeter )
It gets worse if it has a port ... the whole thing is sealed with screws that are strategically placed but if i cut a port , it will just get overly bassy ... Time for bi amping if i do any serious guitaring on it ( Is it worth it ? )
Oh i just found out , the AC30 is indeed 16ohm , and is always operated on their brink of collapse , you could do 2 things , make sure the output tranny is 8 ohms if you want to parallel it , or get a 2 higher rated speakers similar to the one offered by WHG above by Keriwana .
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Speaker impedances have changed with technology.
Historically valve amps used 16 ohm speakers, it made no difference what impedance you used, because you HAD to use transformers, so the transformer was wound to match the speaker.
With the advent of transformerless transistor amps, the situation changed completely - speaker impedance was now critical, and output power entirely dependent on it. Because of the lower voltage used 16 ohm were too high, so 8 ohm became the norm, with 4 ohm for lower voltage amps (such as in-car, with only 12V supplies). Over the past decade or two, Sony stereo systems have rather bizzarely tended to use 6 ohm speakers though?.
The exception of course was (and still is) announcement type PA systems, where the common use of 100V line systems means transformers are still used, so just as with valve amps you can tap off for any impedance speakers you want.
Hate to say it, but that's because 12AX7s are cheaper, and more widely available. Dr. Z used EF86s as his secret weapon when he started out. It has a much sweeter breakup than a 12AX7.
Two speakers will be louder in a big room (more surface area), and they have a nice phase interference pattern. Some prefer the more focused sound of a 1x12. And of course, 1x12s are lighter.
Doesn't really matter that much with two identical speakers. There are those that think the rougher sound of series wiring is preferable. Parallel wiring smooths out the (production tolerance) differences in impedance more.
Ten inch guitar speakers don't often sound like twelves. Since the cabinets don't reinforce the bass in a defined manner, there's almost always a difference (though some tens have deeper bass than some twelves). But, mostly, there's a difference in the distortion of a ten inch diameter cone as opposed to a twelve inch, and since that's based on the length of the sound waves, there's really no way of faking it.
Now, some people like the sound of tens, especially when used four at a time (Super Reverbs, et al), but for single speaker cabinets, I can say with some degree of safety that a twelve "will sound like a guitar" more than a ten will. Mostly, this is because nearly all the guitar sounds you've ever heard were made with twelve inch speakers.
It doesn't help that most practice amps have smaller speakers, so this just reinforces the idea that less than a twelve sounds cheesy.
Now, some people like the sound of tens, especially when used four at a time (Super Reverbs, et al), but for single speaker cabinets, I can say with some degree of safety that a twelve "will sound like a guitar" more than a ten will. Mostly, this is because nearly all the guitar sounds you've ever heard were made with twelve inch speakers.
It doesn't help that most practice amps have smaller speakers, so this just reinforces the idea that less than a twelve sounds cheesy.
I agree.
12 inchers tend to sound warmer, and bassier then a 10 incher due to the maximum amplitude.
But 8" woofers are unbeatable when it comes to bass.
a larger cone in my opinion will make the sound fatter but will sparingly lack on the mids.
i have 4 to 15 inch woofers to prove my point.
12 inchers tend to sound warmer, and bassier then a 10 incher due to the maximum amplitude.
But 8" woofers are unbeatable when it comes to bass.
a larger cone in my opinion will make the sound fatter but will sparingly lack on the mids.
i have 4 to 15 inch woofers to prove my point.
Ac 15 and 30 run at about 320v, so you are good for 17 watts with that ht, with cathode bias and 8k primary.
There seems to be a lot of opinion here that people are presenting as fact.
The blue alnico that came in an ac30 was designed specifically for that application. I believe that vox and celestion spent quite some time deciding on the spec of the speaker and whether the cab should be open backed or not. They went with alnico because of it's high flux, meaning it is more sensitive. That is why vox's are deceptively loud for 30 watts.
The idea that they are open backed because 12's are 'woofers' is ridiculous.
They went with an open back as it has more of a spread than a closed back (closed back is more directional on stage).
And as far as 12 v 10's goes, it's just down to taste. Some people prefer the papery breakup of 10 inch Jensons. I do.
When you drive an amp into saturation, rolling off the lows is sometimes more palatable. And succint.
Fender did it on the 4x10 bassman to stop driving the speakers into a non-controlled resonant area, and they sound bloody fantastic for guitar.
But some people prefer the extra oomph in the low end. Just depends what you want to do with it. More radiating area means more low end, and more spl's. But one 10, or one 12 with a set of el 84's can sound lovely.
Built stuff with ef86's in the front end- so bloody hard to get affordable non-microphonic or hissy specimens that I gave up. I just go with paralleling both sides of an ecc83 if I can waste one socket on one gain stage. But most times I use the extra stage for something else.
Have fun!
There seems to be a lot of opinion here that people are presenting as fact.
The blue alnico that came in an ac30 was designed specifically for that application. I believe that vox and celestion spent quite some time deciding on the spec of the speaker and whether the cab should be open backed or not. They went with alnico because of it's high flux, meaning it is more sensitive. That is why vox's are deceptively loud for 30 watts.
The idea that they are open backed because 12's are 'woofers' is ridiculous.
They went with an open back as it has more of a spread than a closed back (closed back is more directional on stage).
And as far as 12 v 10's goes, it's just down to taste. Some people prefer the papery breakup of 10 inch Jensons. I do.
When you drive an amp into saturation, rolling off the lows is sometimes more palatable. And succint.
Fender did it on the 4x10 bassman to stop driving the speakers into a non-controlled resonant area, and they sound bloody fantastic for guitar.
But some people prefer the extra oomph in the low end. Just depends what you want to do with it. More radiating area means more low end, and more spl's. But one 10, or one 12 with a set of el 84's can sound lovely.
Built stuff with ef86's in the front end- so bloody hard to get affordable non-microphonic or hissy specimens that I gave up. I just go with paralleling both sides of an ecc83 if I can waste one socket on one gain stage. But most times I use the extra stage for something else.
Have fun!
You can also mix speaker types for a variety and/or mix of sounds depending on how you mic it
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