Head vs. Head

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Hello to all people out there. I am in a dilemma, for what amp to get.
I am currently growing out of combo practice amps, and looking into getting a stack. I am torn between the Line 6 IV hd150, and a Peavy VYPYR. I am planning on building a cab myself, so I have options for wiring.

Is the more watts going to speakers mean that it is louder??
How big of a stack can a line 6 hold?
Can I use a full stack with the Peavy??

Some background of what i plan to do.
I plan on using some drop tuning, and want built in effects, footwsitch jack, and maybe an effects loop. Any other suggestions welcome, And the lower the price, the better, as I am saving up some money from some small gigs.

Thanks
 
While in the absolute more watts will make something louder, in the general case, practically a lighter cone speaker, or a different cabinet, will often make more difference than doubling amp power. Even rigging that combo on a chair so that it's feeding your ears rather than your knees can make an enormous difference, far more than just more power.

So, why do you need this extra loud? Personal gratification? Need for feedback to the instrument to increase sustain? Other members of the band can't hear you? (that last one's dangerous, as it tends to lead to an upward spiral) Admittedly a stack tends to spread better than a combo (memories of an outdoor festival where a mesa Boogie 1x12 was blasting a laser-straight line of annihilation through the audience, with those two places off the beam not understanding why their neighbours' ears had started to bleed) but it's a lot more transport.
So a large array of inefficient loudspeakers looks impressive, doesn't get too loud, and covers reasonably well.

But if you use a tower with six 250 watt 12" speakers, you're not obliged to drive it with a thousand watt amp. In fact, that much potential power would make you very difficult to work with. In fact, do you like the sound of your present combo? (apart from there not being enough of it, that is? ) If you know it well, and can get what you need out of it, it might be worth simply taking the speaker output and feeding a solid state booster, cheap PA amp with good specs and no expensive controls.

Then, when you gid small gigs, or big gigs with decent PA and monitors, you could leave the heavy stuff behind.

The original Marshall 8x12 contained 8 fifteen watt celestion 12 inchers, was run of a fifty watt amp, and was designed when PAs were a joke.
 
I am upgrading the driver in my small combo. It works fairly well, but if i stand 50 ft away from it, and play a chord, i can barely hear it. This is not usefull if i am going to play outdoors, which is what i plan on doing somewhat.

I am playing metal, or at least hard rock type music.
 
I am upgrading the driver in my small combo. It works fairly well, but if i stand 50 ft away from it, and play a chord, i can barely hear it. This is not usefull if i am going to play outdoors, which is what i plan on doing somewhat.

I am playing metal, or at least hard rock type music.

Like I said above, the power should come from the PA, not from your guitar amp - I doubt upgrading the driver will make much, if any, difference.
 
There is no absolute rule that says all the work must be done by the PA.

Certainly there is a fashion for in-ear monitoring, keep levels down on stage, when the automatic decibel shutdown comes in you can't hear anything but the drums type concert, but it makes the musicians very dependent on technicians who are not part of the band, and they have no reason to trust to be getting it right. (Yeah, I'm often one of those technicians, and why should you trust my judgement on the final mix?) And feeling the performance in your bogy, with twenty thousand watts of sidefills, drum fill and wedges driving back into the musicians is a very physical, adrenaline-loaded experience (even if your FOH mixer has given a sigh, and is trying just to get vocals and snare drum audible through the mess).

But he obviously doesn't need this stimulus to play, as he's succeeding quite well now on a combo.

Trouble is, an AC30 can easily balance up with a 200 watt bass rig, and amplified drums. A keyboard rig would need at least 250 watts and efficient speakers to match it without distortion. Are you intending to upgrade all your back line, and your transport? If it is just occasional big gigs, much easier to hire an outdoor PA when, and only when you need it. And if you're playing festivals or opening band even that is generally covered.

As regards which amp would be best for you, the only way is to try it, if possible in the real conditions you'd be using it . Listening to it in a shop isn't the same. Hire one for a gig, get the music shop to bring one round, find a mate with one. "Sound" in this situation is subjective; we can talk about dBs, and build quality, toughness; but it's not percentage distortion or phase shift that's going to make this your amp, and you are the only person who can feel your needs.
 
If I can't trust you with my mix, why on earth would I hire you?

There is no law about getting the giotar in the PA, but come on, outdoors? Outdoors is the toughest room there is to fill with sound. Some guitar amps beam the sound straight out the front. That means you can hear it a mile away as long as you are on axis with the speaker. But then the rest of the guys on stage can;t hear you. Other speakers/cabs spread the sound around, great for on stage, everyone can hear. But then it doesn;t project very far.

Neither of those things fills the outdoors though. Your beamer falls on the ears of those few folks right in the path of your amp, but no one else hears you. Of your cab has a difuse pattern and the only folks to hear you are the ffront row. SO outdoors especially, you ought to be in the PA.
 
There is no absolute rule that says all the work must be done by the PA.

No, but there is common sense :D

This isn't the 1950's - PA is there for a reason, and it's pretty silly not to take advantage of it.

Plus of course a guitarist outside the PA completely ruins the sound of the band more often than not, as the PA guy has no control over him.
 
Mostly, i just want to upgrade to something that does not make me look like a kid who just picked a wall mart guitar. I want to make it look like i am not a beginner.

Your equipment doesn't make you look like a beginner, it's how you play. A competent player makes anything look and sound great, a poor player makes the best gear you can buy sound poor, and makes a laughing stock of themselves.

A friend of mine, who's an excellent guitarist had an old friend (from back in school) who had pretentions of been a great guitarist. He bought the most expensive Gibson Les Paul he could find, and the most expensive Marshall amp and stack he could find. He then complained it didn't sound like Jimmy Page on some specific track - and he was loking for the specific make and model of amp that was used, expense no object.

My friend declined to point out that perhaps it was because he only knew three chords :D

As for your amp, currently you've got a small practice amp - that's all it is, and all it can be. It's perfectly 'gigable', simply mike it up through the PA. But if you want a more suitable amp, look at combos of 60W or 100W - and for heavy metal or rock, look at Marshall valve ones.
 
Some good advice so far. There are a good number of metal and hard rock bands that have an impressive stack of cabs behind them - if you got to see a back view of the stage you'd find they're "shells" and have nothing in them, sort of like the fake building fronts you see in old Western movies. They're purely for visual effect.

Depending on what you already have, you may already have what you need. Are you loud enough to keep up with the band in practice, and do you currently like the sounds you get? What amp do you use now?

If you HAVE to have a stack, I'd look locally for a used cab. For the style you play you might look for a Peavey 5150 head used; they're kind of the "go to" metal head for metalheads on a budget. But don't be in a hurry, you don't have to have it to sound good, and it sounds like its beyond your budget at the moment. The real badass musicians don't worry too much about being laughed at, cause they're badasses.
 
Is the more watts going to speakers mean that it is louder??
How big of a stack can a line 6 hold?
Can I use a full stack with the Peavy??

Thought I'd also give a few specific answers to these questions:
Yes, more watts to more speakers is louder, but its a logarithmic function, so 100 watts is only around twice as loud as 10 watts.
If the impedence of the speakers is correct, almost any amp can "hold" several stacks if needed.
Yes you can use a full stack with either one.

These days with modern PA systems, its rare that you really need a full stack for playing any size venue.
 
I am looking for an amp that has some built in effects. A bit better than the amp that came with the guitar. I want to have a straight answer. Stop telling me I do not need it. I will chose one or the other, not none
Thats true wisdom, accepting only the advice you want to hear. I think you've gotten several very straight answers. From the petulant tone of your last post, I'm guessing you must be in your young teen years, and I understand its a challenging time. Ok, here ya go kid - what you need is a Marshall Mode 4 amp with a full stack of two 4 X 12 cabs. Nothing else will do for you. You might need to sell a lot of drugs to get what you need. Good luck.

If you'd like me to try again with an answer somewhat intermediate between what you want to hear and what I think is a logical and workable answer for you, just say so and I'll try to help out. I have a few questions for you to answer if you're interested, but if not, again, good luck.
 
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