I've done 12" in K15 and wouldn't hesitate to do so again.
Beta12LTA does not suck, but DeltaPro15 has better spec.
K12 cabinet has never impressed me as suitable for bass,
the instrument really needs BK115 or bigger.
Sorry, my Kramer is not one of them aluminium wonders...
I got it drop tuned AEADGB 75554 using the low 6 strings
of a standard 7 set. Drop low B string extra 2 frets to A.
Fortunately Floyd tremolo allowed for this intonation.
Low A is a little sloppy, I probably need a baritone neck...
My Kramer neck cracked through headstock anyways,
though not in a way that would ever likely fall apart...
Morpheus droptune brings me down another octave, but
not entirely satisfied with the effect, even after firmware
update. Its kinda swirly in a way thats hard to describe...
Works better for arpeggiated notes than power chords.
Arthritus kills my left hand when I have to play real bass.
Too much clamping force required to hold out more than
maybe 30min tops...
Beta12LTA does not suck, but DeltaPro15 has better spec.
K12 cabinet has never impressed me as suitable for bass,
the instrument really needs BK115 or bigger.
Sorry, my Kramer is not one of them aluminium wonders...
I got it drop tuned AEADGB 75554 using the low 6 strings
of a standard 7 set. Drop low B string extra 2 frets to A.
Fortunately Floyd tremolo allowed for this intonation.
Low A is a little sloppy, I probably need a baritone neck...
My Kramer neck cracked through headstock anyways,
though not in a way that would ever likely fall apart...
Morpheus droptune brings me down another octave, but
not entirely satisfied with the effect, even after firmware
update. Its kinda swirly in a way thats hard to describe...
Works better for arpeggiated notes than power chords.
Arthritus kills my left hand when I have to play real bass.
Too much clamping force required to hold out more than
maybe 30min tops...
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Well, yes and no. Certainly couldn't argue with your numbers there, however this decision was based more on personal taste, listening and many years of playing/recording. Here's some of my reasoning: the speaker is only ever going to see 100 watts, which at stage volume isn't going to give clean 40hz. Barely 60hz. I often high pass at 50. 99% of the tone of the instrument is above 80hz, or higher. And if I was obsessed with hearing 41hz, this speaker will be sitting atop an svt 15, which if needed, could work on those precious bass frequencies. What I am hoping for is a speaker that will add some high freqs beyond the ampeg's 3k and beyond most bass cab's 4k without resorting to tweeters. also the ampeg's sensitivity is 98db and the eminence is 97.7. close enough for me.
anyway, it seemed like an idea.
oh by the way, the cab is almost done, but I haven't cut the port yet. I kinda want to put it in the back, and i read somewhere about putting it on the bottom..... what's a good place? how far from the sides? If it does go in back, where in relation to the driver?
I'm with you Tinitus. So many bassists understand the fundamental of the B or even E string isn't what makes a great bass sound, but insist on that darned port! For main speakers it's a great option in small and mid-size formats, but for the instrument, you may as well not shortchange the whole program by stuffing the low end through a port right from the start. The impact and immediacy (dynamics) and ultimate fidelity all the way down to 30Hz will be more important for stage sound, and if they can actually get down that far in the PA, it can be Eq'd for level. Certainly miking a bass cab for recording is going to show serious benefits from staying as close to direct radiator for the fundamental as you can get.
because som here actually know how speakers work
Like Drew says, low notes tend to be muddy, and cleaner more controlled sound is welcome
But you cant do it randomly
Woofer and box needs to match, and calculated
Some will have nice smooth roll off, other may drop like a stone
Generally you would need lowish Fs, and medium/high Qts
But if you need to play VERY loud, I would think that lower Qts to be preferred for better control, and good Xmax
But no, I have never actually built any instrument speaker system
But I will, some day
And if going exstreme I would definately use digital DSP EQ
Oddly enough, it would tend to make the cabinet much smaller for a given driver. Running a proper ported cabinet sealed will drop the Qts quite low and eat up a lot of driver excursion capacity. You'll have lower output limits with flat response, far below the driver rating especially for a 5 string. Of course you can always go with more drivers. The B102, for example, would have a lot of trouble without a port. You might be better off with some of those for the top and several Beta12A2 sealed for the bottom. Just an example. You could easily do better.
I'd say build what you have. Try playing at low volumes with the port plugged and see what you think. It's all an adventure anyway.
I'd say build what you have. Try playing at low volumes with the port plugged and see what you think. It's all an adventure anyway.
hey, all. finally got around to the part where I see if it was all worth it or not today. it really surprised me how good it sounded! much more low end than i was expecting, clear and loud. all in all a very good bass cab, a little like an altec 421A. i expect the tone to be able to cut through in my loud punk band. btw, i did end up cutting a 4" port, but I got a removable plug at HD to try out the sealed thing. from what I heard real quick, i prefer the ported, though they didn't really sound incredibly different.
anyway, i couldn'ta done it without you guys....
thanks
anyway, i couldn'ta done it without you guys....
thanksAttachments
Seems to me that unless a guitar pickup manufacturer uses less strong magnets and coils for the low pitch strings( they don't)and if a guitar has a constant accoustic level from bass to high( which they don't ),why worry about a speakers bass response below say 60 HZ? The nattural increase in energy from a big diameter string vibrating over a pick up magnet and coil,will increase accoustic output at low frequencies tending to mask the speakers rolloff at low frequencies. A speakers response that's 3 DB down at 40hz doesn't matter if the increased guitar output at 40hz is 5db. That's not even taking into the account that bass carries much further than high frequencies at distance, and not taking into account that most guitar amps have a built in steep rolloff below a certain frequency like 40-50 HZ. Too many people building guitar amps try to apply home Hi Fi thinking to the speaker design when in fact the last thing you want or need is a flat freq. response from 20hz-20k hz. The best sounding instrument speakers have very pronounced dips and peaks that compliment the entire system from string ,to pickup, to amp, to speaker, giving you the sound you like/ want . Just read thru guitar mods and see how many install rising high freq pickups, or bass boost pickups , or designer 8-12-15" speakers that will never be a midrange or tweeter.
The approach to bass guitar rig design started to deviate from guitar rig design philosophy long, long ago. They really are two totally different animals and getting a good sound requires very different approaches. It's not practical to use a big tilt in the electrical response, utilizing the increased pickup coupling due to larger strings, because this eats up a massive amount of dynamic range everywhere in the system. I've never arrived at an optimum upper pickup response with a constant distance between all strings. The 31 Hz fundamental is definitely desirable on a 5 string and the truest response at that frequency makes a difference. Lots of rolloff is perfectly acceptable but even for a 4 string totally forgetting about response below 60Hz is a plan for a real unpopular sound.
Not sure about that - very few home stereos will reproduce 40Hz properly, so there's often little point in putting it on the recording. Still, those of us that can, do.
Any major eq (overall response shaping) would happen in the pre-amp somewhere. For example, my guitar amp has bass cut (turn bass up to 9/10 to get it flat), and treble boost (well, mid-high boost - seems to change the upper vocal range, perfect for guitar solos). There's also a steep HP filter set somewhere low to stop the speaker having to react to leaning on strings etc.
Then (usually exclusive to bass rigs), you can play with the graphic eq, get the holes in the response that you desire.
I didn't mean forget about it, I meant don't go too much by speaker manufacturers specs that used a frequency generator at a fixed output for all freqs. Starting with the electric guitar the output isn't fixed. The amps don't have a flat freq response from 20-20K and the speakers sure don't either. Some of the most revered speakers for bass guitars have a rolloff starting at 60 because they know the guitars have an electrical increased freq, output starting pretty high up.Plus theres the problem of handling the guitar. you would go nuts if everytime you touched it you heard a thump/ or all the speaker cones jumped outward trying to play a 1 hz sound.I like multiple 8" speakers lots of them and 30hz is hard for any 8" to play with the same sound pressure level as 50-100hz, but the 8" multiples seem to do pretty well playing E open as delivered to the amp thru the pickups.
Well of course the quoted statement is mainly opinion. There are plenty of genres where accurate and fairly flat bottom on the bass guitar isn't an issue. But with electronic instruments, car systems, and headphones driving easily better than half of the listening ears these days, I don't think you can say there's little point so often.
I really enjoy hearing the entire range of the electric bass and how easily it competes with that of electronic sounds without sounding silly at all, assuming it's handled well, which of course is pretty darn difficult.
I really enjoy hearing the entire range of the electric bass and how easily it competes with that of electronic sounds without sounding silly at all, assuming it's handled well, which of course is pretty darn difficult.
Karlson.
See Freddi's photos of K12, posted #2 and #5 of this thread.
K15 basically the same idea only bigger: Internal port instead
of slits, and with a front "shelf" to correct tuning anomalies.
You can find the K15 plan published in 1955 radio electronics,
don't recall which month that was.
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