Looking for a DIY PA system for my sons Garage Band

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If you really want to do it yourself, make sure to use musical instrument speakers, NOT home stereo speakers. Pro audio speakers are lot more efficient - that is a lot louder for a given signal level.

Depending on how loud you need to be and how large the room, a pair of basic two way speakers makes sense. A single 15" or even a 12" and a horn in each box. Crossover as appropriate.

Power amps are power amps, though pro PA stuff usually has more protection, roadability, and performance features than stereo gear.

Mixers are simple enough, how many channels and how fancy do you need?

But really, I would recommend looking into some used commercial gear first. You could spend hours and hours and a lot of money building something that you could have goten for a lot less all ready to go. A powered mixer - mixer with power amp all in one - and a couple speaker cabs, and you're ready.

In Canada, you ought to be able to find some good solid basic Yorkville stuff for not a lot of money. Even the older Traynor (made by Yorkville) stuff ought to be available and still working. And certainly American brand Peavey offers a lot of mixer for the money. I don't recall the Yorkville model numbers, but in the Peavey line I'd check out some box mixers. Powered mixers in a cabinet like a guitar head. The XR600 series has been the worlds most popular powered mixer for years. The smaller XR500 or XR400 might be enough for you.

Look up Peavey XR600 (it comes in several versions, plain XR600, and then the b,c,d,e,f versions too.), XR500, XR400 on ebay or google to get an idea what they are selling for these days. Look at the local music dealers who sell used gear. Check the want ads in the paper.
 
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To clarify a bit, Pro PA drivers are what you want.

Guitar drivers are musical instrument speakers, but have special characteristics that make them not so good for a PA system.

I made some for my son's band using the Selenium WPU 1505 woofer and the Ti 205 horn driver I think. The models have changed a bit. but that brand is good value. I got them on sale at Partsexpress.com whom I have no association with. As Enzo said, a two way with a horn and 15" are a good start. Stay away from piezo horn drivers or tweeters. Some can use them well for certain purposes, but not you (or me) Their main virtue is they are cheap but usually sound horrible.

He is also right that used might be the cheapest way to go. BUT I got a lot of credit for making the speakers for my son, who really appreciated it, and it was a good father/ son project. They sound great IMHO. I had my 53rd birthday party recently and they saved my "good " stereo system.

We drive them with a 110w/ ch Hafler which is too weak in most people's opinion , but he plays jazz so the levels aren't too high.

Generally the pros drive speakers with more powerful amps, because if it starts to clip, there goes the tweeter.... But if you don't crank it so it distorts you can do OK.


Maybe someone will see this thead now that I bumped it and steer you to some cabinet sites.
 
Thanks all for the input, I will clarify a bit here. The bad consists of 4 guitars with there own amps and my son the drumer. There biggest issue is voice. The venues they play at are very poor for PA voice setups., so essentially they need speakers and an amp for this purpose only. For now they can manually mix guitar amps to the appropraite sound level. Then come the question of feedback with different sources, that happened at the last placed they played. Ideas on all this would be very appreciated, thaks in advance!
 
Hi,

you still need a PA amplifier, minimum 4 mic inputs and reverb.

The only thing that goes through the amp is voices and possibly other
miked up stuff e.g. acoustic guitar, drum snare, hand percussion etc.

4 guitars eh ? acoustic feedback ? Simple fact is most bands play far
too loud to suit the acoustics for the PA and end up drowning it out.
So it gets turned up too loud and gets horrible feedback problems.

Simple solution is to turn the guitars down and reign back the drums.

Not that young headbangers will have anything to do with the idea.

:)/sreten.
 
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OK guys,

Lets help airframe out a bit here. HE wants to make his own PA speakers. That's a good thing- we are DIY Audio after all.

I made my son some PA speakers and they sound great, and my son thinks I'm sooo cool. Doing it shows you are interested in HIS interests,

Yes, maybe he could get some decent speakers cheaper by buying used, but he can make some good ones too, and he'll know the condition they're in.Could you look over these designs and give an opinion?

these are the plans that people refer to a lot:


http://www.speakerplans.com

How about the Midtop x15?

I can post mine, but need to measure them and such, and other designs are out there I'm sure! Mine are simple bass reflex 2 way with 15" and a horn.

airframe:
another good brand for drivers at a reasonable price is Eminence.
Made in the US and incredible value.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=113

http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=E

The speaker plans refer to pAudio speakers - another quality, reasonably priced driver company.

http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=PA
 
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Hi airframe,
As I was reading this thread I thought of suggesting Eminence which I've used in club settings before. Reliable and just about exactly what you want. 10's and 8's might work good for the vocals.

Plywood for the box to keep the weight down, lot's of bracing. They make inset handles and cloth coving for the boxes. Helps keep the boxes in one piece through all the bumps. Laminated wood will be stronger, and you can avoid using a router that way. I would also suggest speak on connectors, not 1/4" plugs and jacks.

-Chris
 
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This Smithereens design that sreten put up seems perfect:


http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/smithereens/index.html


I have no association w/ Parts Express but they offer good prices, good service, and have all the parts you need such as connectors, crosover parts, handles... corner guards....

Bill Fitzmaurice cabinet design may be very good , but very complicated to make comparitively.


For mixer, amp and mics check Craig's List if you have one locally or the free advertising newspapers. Musicians, tend to run out of money a lot, and their stuff goes on sale. Really, equipment like this is in effect owned by a collective of musicians and just circulates around,.....
Places like Guitar Center have 2 and 4 paks of decent dynamic mics like AKG on sale pretty cheap and good enough.. Used stands cetainly a good idea- you can tell if they work!!

MAking an amp for PA is not a good idea unless you have lots of experience...
 
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BUT if I were to make an amp I would use UCD400 modules.
Pretty simple to hook up as they are in fact modules, , very small and light for the power ,give off little heat and probably sound better than your audiophile amp.

search on UCD400 in the "Class D" area. That will keep you busy for a few days ;)

Their home page:
http://www.hypex.nl/

variac

P.S. The Selenium woofer I mentioned that I used was the the previous 15" model of the 12" woofer used in the Smithereens. The specs look very similar. Not dirt cheap, but when you see it you will be amazed by how impressive it is!! And how surprisingly good it sounds!
 
100 watts

100-watts will work in a garage practice setting, but not a nightclub of normal size. Minimum power I recommend is 200-watts per channel & 400-watts per channel will fit future requirements better.

DIY speakers are great way to go & fun to build. One piezo type tweeter that does sound good are CTS/Motorola KSN1142A available at Martin Pro Sound. Use a 20 ohm series resistor or so to match volume with your 10", 12" or 15" full range driver.

I went overboard for a most accurate voice only PA. I use 6 foot high x 16" x 14" cabs. The two cabs have a total of 8x Vifa 8", pair of horn tweeters & pair of Eminence 10".

The mixer is an older DuKane with upgraded Op Amps & new polyproplyene coupling caps. The stock tantalium were not great sounding.

This speaker system is so much more clear & precise for voice compared to our older Yamaha speakers to the point the Yamaha PA speakers does not compare. Of course, I mic drums thru the Yamaha speakers and other general PA duties that might possibly blow the Vifa 8" speaker arrays even though they have a large x-max & rated 100 wattts each.

I have had a responce that some others think I am nuts. The Vifa are not a general PA speaker item (just voice) & eight of these speakers are expensive.
 
Re: 100 watts

I have had a responce that some others think I am nuts. The Vifa are not a general PA speaker item (just voice) & eight of these speakers are expensive. [/B]



Yes, I think you're nuts! :)

But more seriously I think it's a lot of money spent poorly, you're looking for PA performance, NOT HiFi perfomance - for the size of your speakers (at six foot tall) you could get much louder and better units.

As always, it's a struggle between performance, size, weight, and cost - you can't have all four!.
 
I better add.........

High x-max HI-FI speakers are accurate sounding for mid frequencies only at moderate volumes & will not project sound like a true PA driver. Efficiency is down about 5-6 dB as well, thus it requires a lot of HI-FI speakers to perform ok at higher volumes. This is an experiment that works for a narrow application & almost no one uses a seperate system for voice only.
 
And that 6db less efficiency is the same thing as reducing the amplifier power to 1/4 of what it would be. Hifi speakers would be way down my list of recommendations for a home built PA cab. Unless you have gobs of leftover power.

And I respectfully disagree about the piezo. I absolutely hate the sound of piezos. Screechy shrill things. That Moto/CTS piezo motor comes screwed to a number of different dispersal arrangements, but they all sound the same to me. But they are darn cheap and require no crossover. I'll give them that. When I see piezos in a commercial cabinet, it is a guarantee it is the lowest price model available. That is to say, cheap goods.

I'd much rather see a real horn and compression driver.

MArtin does have a good selection of speakers for PA use. Do they sell retail these days? They used to be wholesale only, which is how we do business with them.
 
Martin products- I own an audio business, but do not market PA gear. Wholesale no problem, but never asked about retail sales.

I will follow advice and upgrade to a real horns. My PA HI-FI speakers do need about 300+ watts per channel to put out reasonable volumes. I also believe a dirty amp with severe clipping would blow the tweeters & mids.
 
Guitar Centers Used Cabinet Section

I used to work at GC and a lot of the used stuff can be haggled down to half the tagged amount. Ya see, they follow strict rules. They take in the merchandise and add 25 to 50% to what they paid, in some extreme cases I have seen 75% markup. Some people will sell anything for a rock. Whata ya gonna do..

In any case, I suggest checking for woofers there and if you really want to get deep with it, build your own cabinet. I would just look for a used woofer and enclosure though, but time is money and I have little time. :xeye:
 
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