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Old 5th August 2007, 04:01 PM   #31
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And all of that has exactly what to do with bass guitar amplification?
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Old 9th August 2007, 12:49 PM   #32
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Well Brett, it has sweet FA to do with bass amplification. But since the incredibly pretentious and mind-bogglingly condescending original post also had nothing to do with the bass instrument...

Simply exercising my right to refute a lemma that claims there is a correlation between the amount of money you spend on stereo equipment and the auditory frequency range you are capable of detecting. This is also true of the amount of money you spend on your bass guitar. Spending more on an instrument will not allow you to hear lower frequencies than you can hear right now.
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Old 9th August 2007, 01:17 PM   #33
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Did anyone claim that a bass gets lower the more expensive it was ?

But there is definitely a correlation between the frequency range reproduced by a speaker system and the effort put into it. There is a physical relationship that can't be denied and this is telling us that for a given size the efficiency of your speaker is proportional to the cutoff-frequency^3.
That's the reason why those 4x10" speakers are quite poular: They offer quite a lot of SPL for a given box-size and weight combined with good upper-end extension. This is at the cost of low-end extension. There are not many instrument-speakers around that can properly reproduce the low E of an ordinary bass, let alone the B of a low-tuned five-string bass. If you want to properly reproduce these as well then you'll nedd to move quite some air which means larger boxes, larger drivers and more power. And this will definitely not come for free.
Furthermore if you want a modern bass sound you'll have to have suitable high-end extension as well. And this wouldn't come for free either.

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Old 9th August 2007, 02:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by hyperpsyched
Well Brett, it has sweet FA to do with bass amplification. But since the incredibly pretentious and mind-bogglingly condescending original post also had nothing to do with the bass instrument...

Simply exercising my right to refute a lemma that claims there is a correlation between the amount of money you spend on stereo equipment and the auditory frequency range you are capable of detecting. This is also true of the amount of money you spend on your bass guitar. Spending more on an instrument will not allow you to hear lower frequencies than you can hear right now.
No issue with the cost of gear vs hearing ability argument as I agree.

The LF response of a BG is determined in great part by the scale length (and consequent tuning) as this directly affects the fundamental and 2H response and therefore measured and perceived strength of the lowest notes. Construction, eg rigidity and the pickups and electronics also have a major influence. I have a lot of BG's, from boutiques from boutiques to cheapies, and lots in between (tending towards the lower end of the cost spectrum and secondhand).

Cheers
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Old 23rd August 2007, 11:18 PM   #35
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This is great! This is exactly what I wanted to find out about: bass guitar amplification range.

I am building a healthy solid state power amp for bass ... and what I'm getting is that the freq response of the amp should be from ~15 Htz through at least 15K Htz., with ~10 Htz through 20K being preferable. (The amp will actually pass 10 to 25k without too much degradation = +/- 1 db through this range).

The question now becomes the pre-amp. I had intended to build a tube pre-amp and a power MOSFET power amp = a hybred combination ... with switched filters for changes to the upper end output.

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Old 24th August 2007, 12:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by FastEddy
This is great! This is exactly what I wanted to find out about: bass guitar amplification range.

I am building a healthy solid state power amp for bass ... and what I'm getting is that the freq response of the amp should be from ~15 Htz through at least 15K Htz., with ~10 Htz through 20K being preferable. (The amp will actually pass 10 to 25k without too much degradation = +/- 1 db through this range).

The question now becomes the pre-amp. I had intended to build a tube pre-amp and a power MOSFET power amp = a hybred combination ... with switched filters for changes to the upper end output.

Comments? ... heckles?
Not many basses tune below B (30Hz). Even your typical 34" scale bass doesn't have as strong a fundamental level below about open A with the 2H dominating. Changes a bit above there though. At the top end, there's really not a lot above 8k, certainly wouldn't be heard in the mix.

SS power and tube pre is a very good idea IMO as it gets you most of both worlds. As you're building your own poweramp, perhaps incorporate some variable frequency selective adjustable feedback a la the Peavey 400 tube head, and I think you'll have a rig that many would be able to tell had some SS in it.

Being devil's advocate, if you haven't started in the SS power yet, buy a pro amp as they're cheap, or build around UCD or 41Hz Amp modules.

There was some interest on Talkbass a couple of weeks back regarding a tube pre design for the few DIY types there. Nothing's come of it yet, but I have been sketching ideas. So far, I'd like to keep it simple with a toploogy like
Input - gain - passive tone stack - gain - VC - balanced out probably with a seperate DI and bright, deep etc switches and some HF and LF type tone controls to roll off each end as required. Should give plenty of tonal variation in 3 stages. If I need any more, I'd add an FX loop in later.

I don't intend using 12A_7 series tubes and want to incorporate some design details that I don't see in MI gear, but are standard in good 'phile stuff like quiet power supplies.
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Old 13th November 2007, 04:21 AM   #37
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I hope this is relvent. I'm building a recording studio in my basement and am currently looking at designs for a bass cab. I don't need it to be terribly loud as I will just be recording with it. The thing that puzzles me is that most drivers made for basses only go down to 50Hz or so. Seems to me it would be imparitive in this aplication to extend at lest to 30Hz. Can someone tell me wher to find a driver that will do this? preferably a 12".
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Old 13th November 2007, 10:05 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by brsanko
I hope this is relvent. I'm building a recording studio in my basement and am currently looking at designs for a bass cab. I don't need it to be terribly loud as I will just be recording with it. The thing that puzzles me is that most drivers made for basses only go down to 50Hz or so. Seems to me it would be imparitive in this aplication to extend at lest to 30Hz. Can someone tell me wher to find a driver that will do this? preferably a 12".
You probably won't find one, and don't need one anyway, as you have already found, bass cabs don't usually go that low (or need to) - and recording of bass guitar is almost always done by DI, so the cab doesn't matter.

If you're wanting a specific miked cab sound, then you need that specific cab anyway.
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Old 13th November 2007, 06:06 PM   #39
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Well I've read in several places that the fundamental frequency of the lowest string on a 5 string bass is at 30Hz so if one wants to reproduce that note they would need to go that low. I've found my driver though it'a an Eminence legend bp102 the specs say it goes down to 40Hz but the T/S parameters tell a different story. By "DI" I am assuming you mean direct in. So are you saying that in most recording environments they don use a bass cab at all? Wouldn't that then require the bass player to wear monioring headphones so he could hear himself play? Seems to me that would be a pain in the ***. I am totally inexperianced at recording but I'm learning fast.
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Old 13th November 2007, 06:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by brsanko
Well I've read in several places that the fundamental frequency of the lowest string on a 5 string bass is at 30Hz so if one wants to reproduce that note they would need to go that low.
Low B is 30Hz, but if you look at the spectrum from a B, you'll find the fundamental is quite a bit lower than 2H and up. Most of the 'tone' comes from the harmonic spectrum, not the fundamental. You don't need a cab flat to 30Hz; many bassists use 4x10's and few of them have a -3dB point below 70Hz, no matter what the manufacyurers specs are.

30Hz flat onstage will equate to mud*. My 18" LF cab is tuned to 40Hz, but with the port blocked is 70Hz and often gives a better sound.
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Quote:
Originally posted by brsanko
By "DI" I am assuming you mean direct in. So are you saying that in most recording environments they don use a bass cab at all? Wouldn't that then require the bass player to wear monioring headphones so he could hear himself play? Seems to me that would be a pain in the ***. I am totally inexperianced at recording but I'm learning fast.
Much bass is recorded soley through a DI or through a pre with a line out. Some people do use cabs to record through.

You're going to need monitoring cans to hear the other tracks you're recording to anyway. When I worked in a studio and did the bass parts for ads, I sat in the control room, plugged into a DI and the desk and played there using the monitors to hear both myself and the other tracks.

If you do mic up a cab in the studio, I find best results with a small cab and amp, so I can push it and get some distortion at lowish volumes. An Ampeg B15N would be a good candidate. Or DIY a small tube amp; 15W is usually plenty.

* I know you're talking about studio, just adding the points for reference.
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