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Old 14th August 2015, 07:05 PM   #1
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Location: Plano, Texas
Default Behringer Amp Clipping, want advice.

Hi all,

New to this forum. I'm an amateur musician playing in a couple of bands. I use a Behringer Europower PMP2000 which claims power as:
  • RMS @ 1% THD (sine wave), both channels driven; 8 Ohm per channel: 165 watts; 4 Ohm per channel: 250
  • RMS @ 1% THD (sine wave), bridged mode: 8 Ohm: 500 watts
  • Peak Power, both channels driven; 8 Ohm per channel: 225 watts; 4 Ohm per channel: 350 watts
  • Peak Power, bridged mode: 8 Ohm: 800 watts
I'm running through two Carvin speakers 805 speakers which are rated at 8 ohms and 200W continuous, 400W peak (10" 2-way speaker).

We use this mainly for practicing, but I'm finding that we have a lot of clipping on our mics when we turn them up to try and get vocals comfortably over the speakers. Am I underpowering the speakers and is this why they're clipping or is my amp just not powerful enough?

Thx Nick
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Old 14th August 2015, 07:39 PM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK

Your power is fine for the speakers. The speakers simply may
not be loud enough. Some compression on vocals would help.

rgds, sreten.
There is nothing more practical than a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
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Old 14th August 2015, 07:44 PM   #3
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You could do some checks first.

Is the input gain setting on your mixer channel not clipping?

Is the output gain setting on your mixer not clipping?

Amplifier power is not so high, also efficiency of cheaper 10inch speakers is also not really good. This will limit the maximum output level of the system.
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Old 14th August 2015, 07:50 PM   #4
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not sure what levels you have but reducing input gain and compensating by raising the master could help reduce clipping the channels.
also less low frequency boosting on vocals should help.
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Old 14th August 2015, 07:51 PM   #5
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Location: Plano, Texas
Thanks for the quick feedback. I'm going to try some of what's been suggested (vocals compression, checking the input/output gains).

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Old 14th August 2015, 08:13 PM   #6
Enzo is offline Enzo  United States
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Location: Lansing, Michigan
And a word on power: other than for marketing, "peak power" is a useless spec. We don't use it.

An analogy is your own strength. You might be able to jerk on a 900 pound object and get it off the floor for a brief moment - peak power - but you could not lift it just standing there.
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Old 14th August 2015, 08:24 PM   #7
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...and overall, should I expect the specs on this amp to allow our band to use in a practice setting (just for vocals- mainly need it to be heard over drums and guitars).
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Old 14th August 2015, 09:33 PM   #8
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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As Enzo says, the real spec you must consider is:
RMS @ 1% THD (sine wave), both channels driven; 8 Ohm per channel: 165 watts
anything else is number crunching for the masses

That said, 2 single 10" speakers are very little for what you want and of course you will be hitting clipping often.
You will eventually burn them too.

To get the best from your setup *today* , set Behringer Power Amp Limiters (if available) "ON", use Masters quite high (around 7 on a 0-10 scale), set preamp gain or pads (if available) so channels do not clip and rise channel volume, watching the VU meters, until the Red blinks but is not continuously ON.
That's the general purpose way to ensure maximum available power from your amp/mixer without needless clipping.

That said, maybe it's not loud enough.
Rising volume beyond that will not give you more clean power but only clip and eventually sound "weaker" because sound will turn into mush.
You have what you have.

You have 2 options:
1) as soon as possible, add 2 more cabinets; at least 2 more of the same, and if possible 2 larger/better ones, at least their 12" larger brothers.
2) lower band volume 1 notch or two, which is exactly the same as rising Voice power 1 notch or two.

The basic sound level setting is having the drummer sart playing on his own , ***unamplified*** , even so he'll already be LOUD.
Then add the Bass, set volume so it just matches drums, both sound like a solid rhythm/base section.
If drums disappear, do NOT amplify them but TURN BASS DOWN, capisce?
Then the melody/rhythm instrument, be it rhythm guitar, keyboards, brass/horns, whatever.
Again, if earlier instruments disappear turn down the just added one.
Then Lead Guitar.
Same considerations.

There is no reason for an already set up instrumment, which was heard perfectly before, to dissappear now, which only means the new one is TOO LOUD .

Agree that guitar amps sound killer overdriven or almost: use Master Volume (that's what it was invented for) , attenuators, smaller amps, switch power tubes off, you name it.
Worst case rehearse with pedals

After you set up sound like explained above, the band will already sound "like a recording" , everybody hears everybody else, etc.

Only now you setup Voice mics, you will find it's much easier adding them over a tamed , balanced, good sounding band.

At least that's what the Pros do
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Old 17th August 2015, 01:54 AM   #9
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i don't think your current mixer will allow you to insert patch a comp on a channel and there's no mention of anything built in.
jm's quick tip guide to building the "layer cake" of a "live mix" is all sage advice.

the pro's have truckloads of gear and can make it (as Nigel Tufnel would say) "go to 11"
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