I like building amps, not cabinets. And didn't think too much about speakers until I put (what I thought) was a great Fender Princeton clone I'd built into a combo cab with some new inexpensive 8" speakers. "Brand new, should sound great!" I thought. Was I wrong. Luckily, I plugged the amp into a Bugera 2x12 cab I'd bought cheap (less amp), and it sounded KILLER. But that cab was rated for 100W, and I had other plans for it. And I can't fit even 10"-ers in the amp with my Princeton clone. I need suggestions on 8" speakers that don't cost $80 or more, but will give me a good guitar sound. Cabinet was a Crate chorus SS amp, open back. Any ideas? Thanks
Another positive vote for the Jensen MOD 8 , killer speaker.
Low price is just a bonus but makes many dislike them, I mean those who listen with their wallets.
Compare it to other 8" guitar and it works fine, definitely in the same league .
Compare it to a 12" V30 or similar and it will seem weak .... like all the other guitar 8" speakers mentioned, by the way.
Compare pears to pears and oranges to oranges.
As a side note, found the
Should it be made out of Plutonium or something?
FWIW 99.99% of speakers (and 100% of guitar ones) are still being made out of paper, I wonder why
Low price is just a bonus but makes many dislike them, I mean those who listen with their wallets.
Compare it to other 8" guitar and it works fine, definitely in the same league .
Compare it to a 12" V30 or similar and it will seem weak .... like all the other guitar 8" speakers mentioned, by the way.
Compare pears to pears and oranges to oranges.
As a side note, found the
comment very funny
Should it be made out of Plutonium or something?
FWIW 99.99% of speakers (and 100% of guitar ones) are still being made out of paper, I wonder why
Great info thanks! I also have a Champ clone (my first build) with a (again) lame speaker in it, thinkng of buying two different speakers, try them in it first. You don't have to put matching speakers in a 2x8 com o cab, right? And I read about the "mid scoop" in guitar speakers. My Champ has no tome controls. Can you build a simple tone stack the adjusts mids only? Could make the speaker sound better....?
Another positive vote for the Jensen MOD 8 , killer speaker.
FWIW 99.99% of speakers (and 100% of guitar ones) are still being made out of paper, I wonder why
You forgot the Eminence Cannabis Rex
Only requirement is having same impedance.
They can very well be different type , combined frequency response may be just what you want, and in fact it's a very popular solution.
Some famous examples:
* Matchless DC30 combos
,
* Mesa 4x12" cabinet with 2 Celestion made speakers for bite and 2 Eminence made Black Shadow for punch:
* or the very popular combination of 2 V30 speakers (strong high mids) and 2 "different" ones , maybe the scooped G12T75 , the wide range Greenbacks, the punchy and full G12H30 or others, to get the best of both.
In this case they are usually mounted in an "X" pattern.
Of course, in the OP case they will be side by side.
I used to muck around with vintage tube amp circuits. I remember modding a Fender Bassman (way back before they were considered vintage treasures; nobody wanted 'em back then) and trying different speakers out. The speaker has more influence on the tone than just about anything else, and the tone controls in the amp have the second-most influence on the final tone. 6L6's vs. EL34's? Minor difference unless you're nitpicky about overdrive tone. Even then, swap out speakers and it's a whole new amp.
I had a wimpy little Princeton that I thought sounded 'weedy' and 'small.' Plugged its output into a Deluxe Reverb cab and guess what? It sounded just like a Deluxe Reverb.
What I think I figured out is that I like the sound of smaller diameter speakers in cabs with large surface area on the baffle (this is for open back). I like open back cabs better than closed back cabs for guitar.
A single 8" with a fairly large, open back cab should sound pretty nice for a small amp. But in a weenie cab the size of a Peavey Bandit? Nah. It wouldn't matter which driver you chose. It would sound weenie (IMO, of course).
I had a wimpy little Princeton that I thought sounded 'weedy' and 'small.' Plugged its output into a Deluxe Reverb cab and guess what? It sounded just like a Deluxe Reverb.
What I think I figured out is that I like the sound of smaller diameter speakers in cabs with large surface area on the baffle (this is for open back). I like open back cabs better than closed back cabs for guitar.
A single 8" with a fairly large, open back cab should sound pretty nice for a small amp. But in a weenie cab the size of a Peavey Bandit? Nah. It wouldn't matter which driver you chose. It would sound weenie (IMO, of course).
It is a speaker not using paper for the coneWhat did I forget?
Please clarify
No.
Having the same nominal impedance ("8 ohm") is not enough, they MUST be identical if serially connected.
They may have different impedance if connection is parallel, for example 16+8 ohm.
Yes, that is true, but I think that is not what OP had on his mind, or know how to do it correctly. With two identical speakers there is no chance for mistake, with serial or parallel connection.
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There is nothing wrong with connecting loudspeakers in series, but only if they are identical. The only difference between parallel and series connection (of identical drivers!) is 6 dB gain in overall sensitivity, for example: 103 dB/2.83V/1m (two in parallel) vs 97 dB/2.83V/1m (two in serial, or single) - but it is of no importance for you because you are using an output transformer for matching the impedance, hence SPL is the same. Total impedance of drivers is different: 16 ohm serial and 4 ohm parallel (if 8 ohm single).
Yes, you are right about sound cancellation on some frequencies, with boost on other - it is a so called comb-filtering effect. But the effect is the same whether you are connecting two drivers in series or parallel. The key word here is two drivers covering the same frequency bandwidth, especially higher frequencies. Luckily, the distance between the acoustical centers of two 8-inch drivers is small enough (if mounted next to each other) not to cause big problems. Two 12-inch speakers do create noticeable comb-filtering effect - it is wrong in the hi-fi world but we are talking about musical instruments here, so it is the way most 2x12 combos are build (and sound). Vertical mounting of the two drivers will help, though.
Do not jump to the next level to pursue the holly grail of sound with two different drivers (in parallel!), for now just find the best sound for you with one driver only.
Yes, you are right about sound cancellation on some frequencies, with boost on other - it is a so called comb-filtering effect. But the effect is the same whether you are connecting two drivers in series or parallel. The key word here is two drivers covering the same frequency bandwidth, especially higher frequencies. Luckily, the distance between the acoustical centers of two 8-inch drivers is small enough (if mounted next to each other) not to cause big problems. Two 12-inch speakers do create noticeable comb-filtering effect - it is wrong in the hi-fi world but we are talking about musical instruments here, so it is the way most 2x12 combos are build (and sound). Vertical mounting of the two drivers will help, though.
Do not jump to the next level to pursue the holly grail of sound with two different drivers (in parallel!), for now just find the best sound for you with one driver only.
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Oh, but it DOES use a paper cone, by the strict definition of paper.
Standard paper is a material made out of a paste of vegetal fiber, (cellulose), chopped and mixed with water, a binder (glue) and for cones usually some pigment, carbon black being the most popular.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdgbTl2rAS0
Cheap printer paper is often made only with chopped boiled wood ; money paper incorporates linen fiber which is very strong, standard speaker cones incorporate cotton fiber, usually from recycled rags and so called "hemp" cones are nothing else than standard wood cellulose paste mixed with *some* hemp fibers (also vegetal origin) .
Of course, focusing just on that additive (which is not more than 10/20% of the mix) and calling it "hemp cone" is nice from a Marketing point of view
Wonder why Guitar Players would be attracted by the word "hemp"
But it still is paper, in this case reinforced with hemp fiber instead of linen fiber as in money paper (now you know why a Dollar bill is so strong and slightly rough to the touch) .
As of:
It's as wrong connecting them in series as it is in parallel, if different impedance, because besides getting a weird impedance (16+8=24 ohms in series, 5.2 ohms in parallel) , power distribution will be very unequal (in series the 16 ohms one will take twice what the 8 ohms one does, in parallel it's the opposite) so I don't understand why would anybody recommend one or the other, no matter which.
+1Wonder why Guitar Players would be attracted by the word "hemp"
As I wrote before, from a hi-fi point it is wrong to operate two different loudspeakers (even with the same nominal impedance) in the same frequency bandwith. But we are talking about loudspeakers as a musical instruments here, so anything is possible and "right", if that leads to a "better" sound.
Solid-state amplifier will accept any nominal impedance from 4 to 32 ohm (or more) without breaking a sweat, so a 5.33 ohm impedance is nothing unusual or weird. Besides, every nominal 4-ohm loudspeaker will have 5.33 ohm impedance at 3 frequency points: the first one before resonant frequency Fs, the second after Fs and the third one higher in the frequency.
Tube amplifier with output transformer will accept 5.33 ohm nominal impedance at 4 or 8 ohm tap either, with 4-ohm tap as better sounding.
Unequal power distribution is not a problem, especially from an amplifier point of view. Let's say we have a solid-state amplifier capable of 100 Wrms output at 4 ohms (20 Vrms, that is), and 16-ohm and 8-ohm (nominal) loudspeakers in parallel. Then, the amplifier will output total of 20^2/5.33=75 W (well within the 100 W capacity), distributed as 20^2/16=25 W to the 16-ohm loudspeaker and 20^2/8=50 W to the 8-ohm loudspeaker. No problem at all, if loudspeakers have high enough power rating (25 and 50 W, respectively).
With 100 W tube amplifier it is very similar, with slightly lower total output power as a result of mismatch between 4-ohm tap and 5.33 nominal total impedance.
But what happens from an acoustical point of view? There are two possible situations, with parallel connection of two loudspeakers with ideally flat frequency responses:
1. Both 16-ohm speaker and 8-ohm speaker have the same sensitivity. Total sensitivity will be 6 dB higher than individual (good!). The comb-filtering effect and the total sensitivity are the same as in the situation with two identical speakers, with identical impedances. So, everything is OK.
2. One of the speakers has higher sensitivity (impedance is irrelevant). The total gain will be higher than 6 dB, and there is lobeing shifted to the side of driver with less sensitivity. The comb-filtering effect and the total sensitivity are the same as in the situation with two speakers with dissimilar sensitivity and the same nominal impedance. Again, everything is OK.
I prefer single loudspeaker combos, I have difficulties to accept comb-filtering effect from 2x12" combos with identical speakers, and two different loudspeakers (even with the same nominal impedance) in the same combo is almost a heresy, but that's just me.
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