Does anyone want to talk about Guitar speakers? I know this topic is completely subjective and somewhat pointless on a technical forum, but what do you like and why?
I built a guitar amp, similar to a vox ac15 (or route66) but with 6v6 outputs. Original idea was to just use what I've got, which I have done so far.
I've got some 70's speakers w/ Utah brand alnico 12" woofers. They are lacking a little high end. The 70's speakers were originally 3 ways, and have a compression driver horn for the mids. So, I put together an xover at about 500hz (frequency chosen by the parts I had) and am using the woofer and compression driver. Compression driver is going though an lpad, and it's turned about 3/4 the way down.
It sounds pretty good! Let me know your thoughts on using a speaker like this..
I'm tempted to purchase 'real' guitar speakers. My problem here is I don't actually have a lot of guitar experience. I'm basically going blind (or deaf) into the speaker purchase, so am just wanting to hear what people like and why..
I've mostly been thinking about frequency, which I can sort of reproduce w/ my 2way speaker. But I've noticed other differences in guitar speakers, which I think has to do w/ distortion.. Most have rings/ridges around the cone.. I noticed some fender speakers are creased along one side, etc. So maybe I could gain a lot by going to a guitar speaker.
Let me know your thoughts.
I built a guitar amp, similar to a vox ac15 (or route66) but with 6v6 outputs. Original idea was to just use what I've got, which I have done so far.
I've got some 70's speakers w/ Utah brand alnico 12" woofers. They are lacking a little high end. The 70's speakers were originally 3 ways, and have a compression driver horn for the mids. So, I put together an xover at about 500hz (frequency chosen by the parts I had) and am using the woofer and compression driver. Compression driver is going though an lpad, and it's turned about 3/4 the way down.
It sounds pretty good! Let me know your thoughts on using a speaker like this..
I'm tempted to purchase 'real' guitar speakers. My problem here is I don't actually have a lot of guitar experience. I'm basically going blind (or deaf) into the speaker purchase, so am just wanting to hear what people like and why..
I've mostly been thinking about frequency, which I can sort of reproduce w/ my 2way speaker. But I've noticed other differences in guitar speakers, which I think has to do w/ distortion.. Most have rings/ridges around the cone.. I noticed some fender speakers are creased along one side, etc. So maybe I could gain a lot by going to a guitar speaker.
Let me know your thoughts.
HiFi and Guitar speaker setups are two different animals. For electric guitar, it's not about fidelity or frequency extension, it's about getting "that tone". Your Utah Alnico in the proper cabinet might do the trick.
Leo Fender was a notorious cheapskate, but with one exceptional difference from the rest of us: He had a fantastic ear for what "sounds right". A cheap speaker can be amazing to work with, if it sounds good. Jensens come to mind--the classic Jensens can be had for a song on Ebay.
My current practice rig is a Radio Shack LM386 based amp (the little white plastic guy with an internal speaker....maybe 1/4 watt) driving a Broun Sound Hemptone 10 inch speaker. I think the speaker was $100 new. The cab is open-backed, 13x13x13 inches. Driven by a Zen Clone pedal and a cheap delay stomp box, it sounds magical, has an amazing blues tone.
Spend an afternoon and build a speaker cabinet for one of your Utahs. Bet it will sound amazing!
Leo Fender was a notorious cheapskate, but with one exceptional difference from the rest of us: He had a fantastic ear for what "sounds right". A cheap speaker can be amazing to work with, if it sounds good. Jensens come to mind--the classic Jensens can be had for a song on Ebay.
My current practice rig is a Radio Shack LM386 based amp (the little white plastic guy with an internal speaker....maybe 1/4 watt) driving a Broun Sound Hemptone 10 inch speaker. I think the speaker was $100 new. The cab is open-backed, 13x13x13 inches. Driven by a Zen Clone pedal and a cheap delay stomp box, it sounds magical, has an amazing blues tone.
Spend an afternoon and build a speaker cabinet for one of your Utahs. Bet it will sound amazing!
You'll get as many opinions on this question as you will when asking 'What's a good-sounding guitar?' or 'What's a good sounding amp?'
I agree with the suggestion to build a guitar speaker cab for your Utah to see how it sounds. You can make a removable back (or partial back) to experiment with open and closed cab types.
Hifi cabinets (and speakers) generally sound terrible for guitar, IME.
Beyond that, I'd suggest WarehouseGuitarSpeakers and also WeberVST - I've had good dealings with both. Hellatones, also. The new Italian Jensens are not the same as the old US ones, though the model numbers match. They do work, though.
eBay is full of blown-out speakers, so be careful there. Sometimes you can get a new speaker that's been pulled from a cab to be replaced by something better.
Aside from the choice of speaker, there's the speaker diameter size. 1 x 12, 2 x10 etc....and that can determine the impedance you're looking for.
Lots of variables....
Eminence Guitar Speaker Tone Guide - Classic British and American Guitar Tone | Eminence Speaker
Hi,
You could spend days going through all the soundclips.
Flat clean speakers are only suitable for acoustic and jazz.
Real electric guitar speakers distort and have a presence
peak, varying from huge to quite mild. With a huge peak
stratospheric efficiencies can be reached, i.e. it goes loud,
but the general usefulness depends on good matching to
the presence control of the amplifiers tone stack.
You also need to match the driver to the type of cabinet.
With the right speakers, 1x12, 2x10 or 2x12 you will
transform the amplifiers capabilities. The original
AC15 had a 1x12 Celestion Greenback.
rgds, sreten.
Hi,
You could spend days going through all the soundclips.
Flat clean speakers are only suitable for acoustic and jazz.
Real electric guitar speakers distort and have a presence
peak, varying from huge to quite mild. With a huge peak
stratospheric efficiencies can be reached, i.e. it goes loud,
but the general usefulness depends on good matching to
the presence control of the amplifiers tone stack.
You also need to match the driver to the type of cabinet.
With the right speakers, 1x12, 2x10 or 2x12 you will
transform the amplifiers capabilities. The original
AC15 had a 1x12 Celestion Greenback.
rgds, sreten.
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Another aspect about guitar speakers, which I think distinguishes them from hi-fi speakers, is that guitar speakers are designed to withstand the difficult signals associated with live guitar.
Live guitar will often drive a speaker continuously at full load (or overload) with a sustained waveform for relatively long periods. A live (clean) guitar signal also has an extremely high initial transient. In general music, full load continuous waveforms are not so common, unless you are playing a solo guitar or bass recording at extreme volume, of course! But even then, the initial transients will invariably have been 'compressed out' during the recording process.
The ridges in the cone, and relatively stiff cone suspension, are designed to stand up to this, and the cone movement intentionally becomes stiffer for large excursions - a nonlinearity which causes distortion.
Relatively speaking, a hi-fi driver tries to retain constant stiffness - which makes it vulnerable to the cone / suspension being permanently damaged, if used for very loud live guitar.
Even, when it's not extremely loud, that initial transient can sometimes 'pop' a hi-fi speaker.
Live guitar will often drive a speaker continuously at full load (or overload) with a sustained waveform for relatively long periods. A live (clean) guitar signal also has an extremely high initial transient. In general music, full load continuous waveforms are not so common, unless you are playing a solo guitar or bass recording at extreme volume, of course! But even then, the initial transients will invariably have been 'compressed out' during the recording process.
The ridges in the cone, and relatively stiff cone suspension, are designed to stand up to this, and the cone movement intentionally becomes stiffer for large excursions - a nonlinearity which causes distortion.
Relatively speaking, a hi-fi driver tries to retain constant stiffness - which makes it vulnerable to the cone / suspension being permanently damaged, if used for very loud live guitar.
Even, when it's not extremely loud, that initial transient can sometimes 'pop' a hi-fi speaker.
Thanks everyone.
I've also been thinking about modifying the old alnico drivers I've got, to get a little more mid range out of them. But I don't know a lot about the art or science of speaker design.
Basically, though, these drivers have large synthetic (rubber-like) surrounds (inverted.. concave, instead of the usual where the hump sticks out).
My thought is to maybe replace the surround w/ a firmer cloth surround, like pro-audio speakers usually have. That might lower the bass/increase the mids a little. But I don't really know.. Also thought about maybe taking off the paper dust cap and replacing it w/ metal or a whizzer cone..
I've also been thinking about modifying the old alnico drivers I've got, to get a little more mid range out of them. But I don't know a lot about the art or science of speaker design.
Basically, though, these drivers have large synthetic (rubber-like) surrounds (inverted.. concave, instead of the usual where the hump sticks out).
My thought is to maybe replace the surround w/ a firmer cloth surround, like pro-audio speakers usually have. That might lower the bass/increase the mids a little. But I don't really know.. Also thought about maybe taking off the paper dust cap and replacing it w/ metal or a whizzer cone..
Some months ago I retrofitted 4 celestion G10R 'greenbacks' into an old 4x10" basscab I bought for a few quid.
Whilst the guitar speakers are only 10" and less efficient than 12"ers, and reissue green backs rather than antiques, I have been very satisfied with their sound and id thoroughly recommend them for their rich breakup and overtones with an overdriven amp.
Whilst the guitar speakers are only 10" and less efficient than 12"ers, and reissue green backs rather than antiques, I have been very satisfied with their sound and id thoroughly recommend them for their rich breakup and overtones with an overdriven amp.
You might do better by selling those old drivers (ebay?) and buying guitar speakers. Just IMO, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhKbSV7f8sQ&feature=youtu.be
Eminence all the way, disregard that 70/80 haha
Eminence all the way, disregard that 70/80 haha
Old drivers only go for about $15-$20 on ebay..
And yeah, I'm considering Eminence.. But am actually liking the sound of the British Celestons more so far. I thought the greenbacks for a while, but then a few clips had me liking something else more last night.. (dont know which it was at the moment).
So anyway.. Modifying existing drivers isn't a big deal. But not ideal, because they're 8ohm, and I need 16 ohm, and don't really have the room for a 2x12.. (unless maybe a compact back to back type arrangement would work, like a sub cabinet... but that's way out there.....)
Back to listening to youtube clips! (some of those comparison videos are too compressed to tell much difference.. others are good, though)
And yeah, I'm considering Eminence.. But am actually liking the sound of the British Celestons more so far. I thought the greenbacks for a while, but then a few clips had me liking something else more last night.. (dont know which it was at the moment).
So anyway.. Modifying existing drivers isn't a big deal. But not ideal, because they're 8ohm, and I need 16 ohm, and don't really have the room for a 2x12.. (unless maybe a compact back to back type arrangement would work, like a sub cabinet... but that's way out there.....)
Back to listening to youtube clips! (some of those comparison videos are too compressed to tell much difference.. others are good, though)
Celestion's yeah then definitely like Greenies/ for sure G12-65s etc kinda wish I had some lol, or some other Stuff from the Eminence line. Use to have some Real V30s but man they are not bad but they do Color sound like something ridiculous and they just kinda sound weird a lot of that "Honk" Harmonics sound weird/different. It's not really the Celestion sound you know haha,
Wanna find them Carvin Brit 100 Eminence Speakers...Those Suckers were bad as **** haha
Try to Pick up them Chinese Eminence Lady Lucks they are pretty killer for what they are, get into that G12H/V30 thing.
Find deals on Speakers all over Ebay haha
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You're correct about youtube clips. Don't even bother with the ones recorded with the camcorder or cell phone mic. You can only begin to tell the real sound if it is mic'd with a decent mic like an SM57 or better.
I really like the Eminence Man O' War.
Got one in a 1x12" closed back cabinet driven by the 2w Vox valve head. Goes loud-ish when you push it, and complements that saturated valve sound so nicely. I'll see about some sound clips - got a few mics around, though, and those can affect what you hear a lot.
Chris
Got one in a 1x12" closed back cabinet driven by the 2w Vox valve head. Goes loud-ish when you push it, and complements that saturated valve sound so nicely. I'll see about some sound clips - got a few mics around, though, and those can affect what you hear a lot.
Chris
Actually would be surprised, how much detail some hand cams can pick up, the better ones with adjustable volumes/turn the damn ******** compressor/limiter off etc haha
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Sorry, but that changes things completely.
VERY old speakers, even if built for "Hi Fi" or, say, organ use, were really very stiff and light, had thin light cones and voice coils, and did work well for guitar, but those soft rubber edges mean they are "acoustic suspension": thick heavy cones, long heavy coils, soft spiders, etc. all of which are treble and sensitivity killers.
But you can get locally (craigslist or yard sales) good guitar amp "pulls" ,when people replaces the factory speaker in,say, a Peavey or Crate or Fender(which anyway works well) with an improved one (Eminence, Celestion, etc.)
The old one often goes for $15 to $25 .
I've come back with more experience...
Based on youtube clips through my PC speakers, and a good price, I purchased some Celestion g12h(55)'s. (I know the 55 is a lower frequency cone, but it sounded better in the clips than the 75hz cone, plus I'm using it in an open back cab, and the heavier cone could theoretically have some benefits there)
In person, I don't like it. I think it's not clear.. too much muddy bass.
An example is, w/ my current 2 way setup, if I play at a low volume w/ everything relatively clean, my les paul sort of sounds like an acoustic guitar.. And I mean, a youtube recording of an acoustic guitar. Basically, I'm listing to youtube vids about how to play songs, and the people are playing acoustic, I'm playing my electric, and surprised about how similar they sound.
(If you haven't read the rest of the thread, my 2way speaker is a re-purposed 70's hifi 3 way speaker. I'm using the woofer and mid, compression driver. Woofer is alnico. They're crossed over at 500hz. Compression driver is attenuated quite a bit (maybe mostly because it's more efficient), and is just filling in some high frequencies.. (no real measurements to know exactly what's going on).
But, with the g12h, at low volumes it's just muddy, or unclear sounding. It sounds good at high volumes, but it's got to be too loud at that point, for what I want.
So... what to try next.. I've decide alnico. I'm looking at a Weber 12a125..(not sure which variant).
I'd even consider purchasing the expensive Celestion Alnico Blue.. When people complain about it, they seem to think it doesn't have enough bass, but I guess I don't want a lot of bass.
Does anyone have any suggestions based on my opinion of the g12h?
Has anyone used any of the weber alnico drivers?
Based on youtube clips through my PC speakers, and a good price, I purchased some Celestion g12h(55)'s. (I know the 55 is a lower frequency cone, but it sounded better in the clips than the 75hz cone, plus I'm using it in an open back cab, and the heavier cone could theoretically have some benefits there)
In person, I don't like it. I think it's not clear.. too much muddy bass.
An example is, w/ my current 2 way setup, if I play at a low volume w/ everything relatively clean, my les paul sort of sounds like an acoustic guitar.. And I mean, a youtube recording of an acoustic guitar
. Basically, I'm listing to youtube vids about how to play songs, and the people are playing acoustic, I'm playing my electric, and surprised about how similar they sound. (If you haven't read the rest of the thread, my 2way speaker is a re-purposed 70's hifi 3 way speaker. I'm using the woofer and mid, compression driver. Woofer is alnico. They're crossed over at 500hz. Compression driver is attenuated quite a bit (maybe mostly because it's more efficient), and is just filling in some high frequencies.. (no real measurements to know exactly what's going on).
But, with the g12h, at low volumes it's just muddy, or unclear sounding. It sounds good at high volumes, but it's got to be too loud at that point, for what I want.
So... what to try next.. I've decide alnico. I'm looking at a Weber 12a125..(not sure which variant).
I'd even consider purchasing the expensive Celestion Alnico Blue.. When people complain about it, they seem to think it doesn't have enough bass, but I guess I don't want a lot of bass.
Does anyone have any suggestions based on my opinion of the g12h?
Has anyone used any of the weber alnico drivers?
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