basically.. 2 friends of mine are making an electric violin.. 
father, and daughter.. anyway.. he has started work on the body of the violin, but I'm not too sure if it will work.... its going to be made of polypropylene (I think.. lol) poured into a silicon mould, then rotated to give the "walls" of the body (understand?) anyway.. I feel that this is going to act very much like a normal violin, except very poorly tuned... most electric violins don't have a body as such.... another problem is the pickup... there are 2 types.. piezo, and mangetic.... the question is, which one should be used on this violin? the problem is going to be that it will act like a normal violin.. in which case a piezo is required.. except its a badly make violin.... :S:S: lol THANX!!
father, and daughter.. anyway.. he has started work on the body of the violin, but I'm not too sure if it will work.... its going to be made of polypropylene (I think.. lol) poured into a silicon mould, then rotated to give the "walls" of the body (understand?) anyway.. I feel that this is going to act very much like a normal violin, except very poorly tuned... most electric violins don't have a body as such.... another problem is the pickup... there are 2 types.. piezo, and mangetic.... the question is, which one should be used on this violin? the problem is going to be that it will act like a normal violin.. in which case a piezo is required.. except its a badly make violin.... :S:S: lol THANX!!Electric violin
Hello,
Making a hollow electric violin out of Polyprop doesn't seem like a good idea, it's simply to weak. If they insist to make it hollow, using glassfibre or carbonfibre with a wooden skeleton seems like a better idea. But, usually people want a massive (solid) electric violin because feedback is much less of a problem, practicing is much easier (if neighbours are giving you a hard time), and a solid piece of wood is damn nigh indestructible. There are also people of course, who go for a particular sound. I can imagine making a few chambers in a solid instrument to add an acoustic touch to the electric sound (look for guitars and basses made by Godin, or the Fender Telecaster Thinline). But making a complete hollow violin is a disappointment a think, plastic doesn't sound as nice as wood does. Regarding the pickups, magnetics only work when all the strings are metal of course. Usually, piezo's under the bridge are used to "electrify" instruments (although, at one time I had plans to put a small mike in a hollow chamber in a bass to add the aforementioned "acoustical" character).
Hope this is useful.
Regards,
Jarno.
Hello,
Making a hollow electric violin out of Polyprop doesn't seem like a good idea, it's simply to weak. If they insist to make it hollow, using glassfibre or carbonfibre with a wooden skeleton seems like a better idea. But, usually people want a massive (solid) electric violin because feedback is much less of a problem, practicing is much easier (if neighbours are giving you a hard time), and a solid piece of wood is damn nigh indestructible. There are also people of course, who go for a particular sound. I can imagine making a few chambers in a solid instrument to add an acoustic touch to the electric sound (look for guitars and basses made by Godin, or the Fender Telecaster Thinline). But making a complete hollow violin is a disappointment a think, plastic doesn't sound as nice as wood does. Regarding the pickups, magnetics only work when all the strings are metal of course. Usually, piezo's under the bridge are used to "electrify" instruments (although, at one time I had plans to put a small mike in a hollow chamber in a bass to add the aforementioned "acoustical" character).
Hope this is useful.
Regards,
Jarno.
Wooden violin
Well, I would go for a nice piece of wood like ash or maple.
Making the magnetic pickup should also prove hard, I think. A piezo pickup is easier implemented. Just buy a couple of piezo buzzers, crack them open and place the piece of piezoelectric material under one, or both the legs of the bridge, add high-impedance preamp, et voila!
Greetings,
Jarno.
Well, I would go for a nice piece of wood like ash or maple.
Making the magnetic pickup should also prove hard, I think. A piezo pickup is easier implemented. Just buy a couple of piezo buzzers, crack them open and place the piece of piezoelectric material under one, or both the legs of the bridge, add high-impedance preamp, et voila!
Greetings,
Jarno.
Yamaha
Think that's a Yamaha, right? Very nice instrument indeed. I myself have been drooling quite some time now over the electric double bass made by Yamaha. I do think these instruments are overpriced though (at least they are in the Netherlands). Acoustically the only active part is the middle bit. You can actually remove the esthetical parts from the double bass, I am not sure if this would make the violin unplayable.
These instruments are probably all equipped with piezo transducers.
Greetings,
Jarno.
Think that's a Yamaha, right? Very nice instrument indeed. I myself have been drooling quite some time now over the electric double bass made by Yamaha. I do think these instruments are overpriced though (at least they are in the Netherlands). Acoustically the only active part is the middle bit. You can actually remove the esthetical parts from the double bass, I am not sure if this would make the violin unplayable.
These instruments are probably all equipped with piezo transducers.
Greetings,
Jarno.
I haven't got a schematic of this, but perhaps on www.harmonycentral.com or perhaps Rod Elliott can help you out?
Greetings,
Jarno.
Greetings,
Jarno.
Hi guys,
I'm currently building a dedicated violin combo amp for a friend who electrified his instrument by using a Fishman piezo transducer.Since I'm a pro violin player myself (I do this for a living) and I'm also building tube equipement,both high-end and instrument amps and boxes,I'd have some comments on your thread.
First of all,the "all-plastic" body,no matter it's a full or a hollow one,is a undesirable idea.Moulding/shaping all kind of composites is a real PITA and the last thing you'd want is to become frustrated because such a construction doesn't fulfill the minimal requests regarding strenght when you tune your instrument.If you take a look all over the 'Net,you'll see that dedicated brands use a central reinforcement piece,going by the head of the violin to the very bottom.Yamaha Silent Violins are a good example,though I deeply HATE those Yamaha products for their poor finish,unstable mechanics and very noisy electronics.And yes,they're way too overpriced for what they offer!
(I appologise for being so radical about a line of products wich may be appreciated by some of you).
If you want some construction details,please try Zeta electric violins.These are the best series-produced el.violins available.
Also,you'd might want to take a look on some electric violins made by some Scottish luthier (I forgot the name,but you'll find it by "googling" a little).
Regarding the piezo transducers,I'd say you have to go with a dedicated product,not a "general-purpose" one for the sake of accuracy and frequency bandwidth.A violin's bandwidth is not limited to only a few KHz's,as some might think,but it's going way up 'till the ultra-sonic range.Of course,on an electric or elctrified instrument you don't get the same harmonic distribution as heard on an acoustic one,but still there are some strong harmonic upper components up to,say,25 KHz.
I have to say some things about choosing the right speaker for this application.I've tried almost all commercial amp for acoustic violins and I drawed my own conclusions,despite the overly-hype claims and brand's advertisments.There are two issues to remind:
1.As some of you might know already,an amplified violin has a "bump" around 270 Hz (this is the low "C" note on the G string),wich is very hard to tame using a classic 3-way EQ.
Strangely enough,but it seems that no commercial brand is aware on that (Yamaha claims their solely AS60-112T acoustic amp is intended for violin,viola AND cello!).In other words,without having a parametric mid or a fixed mid working precisely in that area,you'd have a very hard time to accomplish a good result.
This is one of the main reasons I accepted to go "the hard way" (building a violin combo for my friend) instead of just buying a commercial product.
2.Because of the more extended upper range required in a violin amplification,most brands use a "dedicated bass-middle driver" in conjunction with a dome tweeter,thus making a 2-way system.
(....no,there is NOT a bi-amping approach,only a cheap passive filter...).The filter network is set to work in the most un-appropriate zone,this is right in the upper mids!,and it's literrally killing your tone because of the phase-shifts that are occuring in such networks.
For my project,I used a 12'' full-range driver,the kind wich has a whizzer-cone.Apparently,nothing special,(most brands are manufacturing this kind of drivers),but it'll ensure an overall uniformity on both freq. AND phase.
The required freq.bandwidth it's not an issue,since the lower G open string has a freq.of about 190-200 Hz,depending of the overall tuning of the instrument,so every fair driver should be able to handle with this.
End of rant,
Le Basseur
I'm currently building a dedicated violin combo amp for a friend who electrified his instrument by using a Fishman piezo transducer.Since I'm a pro violin player myself (I do this for a living) and I'm also building tube equipement,both high-end and instrument amps and boxes,I'd have some comments on your thread.
First of all,the "all-plastic" body,no matter it's a full or a hollow one,is a undesirable idea.Moulding/shaping all kind of composites is a real PITA and the last thing you'd want is to become frustrated because such a construction doesn't fulfill the minimal requests regarding strenght when you tune your instrument.If you take a look all over the 'Net,you'll see that dedicated brands use a central reinforcement piece,going by the head of the violin to the very bottom.Yamaha Silent Violins are a good example,though I deeply HATE those Yamaha products for their poor finish,unstable mechanics and very noisy electronics.And yes,they're way too overpriced for what they offer!
(I appologise for being so radical about a line of products wich may be appreciated by some of you).
If you want some construction details,please try Zeta electric violins.These are the best series-produced el.violins available.
Also,you'd might want to take a look on some electric violins made by some Scottish luthier (I forgot the name,but you'll find it by "googling" a little).
Regarding the piezo transducers,I'd say you have to go with a dedicated product,not a "general-purpose" one for the sake of accuracy and frequency bandwidth.A violin's bandwidth is not limited to only a few KHz's,as some might think,but it's going way up 'till the ultra-sonic range.Of course,on an electric or elctrified instrument you don't get the same harmonic distribution as heard on an acoustic one,but still there are some strong harmonic upper components up to,say,25 KHz.
I have to say some things about choosing the right speaker for this application.I've tried almost all commercial amp for acoustic violins and I drawed my own conclusions,despite the overly-hype claims and brand's advertisments.There are two issues to remind:
1.As some of you might know already,an amplified violin has a "bump" around 270 Hz (this is the low "C" note on the G string),wich is very hard to tame using a classic 3-way EQ.
Strangely enough,but it seems that no commercial brand is aware on that (Yamaha claims their solely AS60-112T acoustic amp is intended for violin,viola AND cello!).In other words,without having a parametric mid or a fixed mid working precisely in that area,you'd have a very hard time to accomplish a good result.
This is one of the main reasons I accepted to go "the hard way" (building a violin combo for my friend) instead of just buying a commercial product.
2.Because of the more extended upper range required in a violin amplification,most brands use a "dedicated bass-middle driver" in conjunction with a dome tweeter,thus making a 2-way system.
(....no,there is NOT a bi-amping approach,only a cheap passive filter...).The filter network is set to work in the most un-appropriate zone,this is right in the upper mids!,and it's literrally killing your tone because of the phase-shifts that are occuring in such networks.
For my project,I used a 12'' full-range driver,the kind wich has a whizzer-cone.Apparently,nothing special,(most brands are manufacturing this kind of drivers),but it'll ensure an overall uniformity on both freq. AND phase.
The required freq.bandwidth it's not an issue,since the lower G open string has a freq.of about 190-200 Hz,depending of the overall tuning of the instrument,so every fair driver should be able to handle with this.
End of rant,
Le Basseur
Hello Le Basseur,
It's great that you've "revived" this thread, because I think it's an interesting topic and the "electrification" of acoustic instruments (apart from guitar) is stil very much "uncharted" territory (if you compare it to guitar).
I haven't got a great deal of time right now (I'm at work) so I will read your post more thoroughly later on, but one thing springs to mind. If the low frequency extension is of no concern, why did you use a 12" driver? Even with a whizzer cone these go only up until about 5kHz max., at least nowhere near 25kHz. You could try the Jordan JX-92 aluminium full range driver, but I don't think that driver reaches 25kHz, more like 15kHz.
Maybe a coaxial 10" driver like SEAS makes them could be the solution.
Regards,
Jarno.
It's great that you've "revived" this thread, because I think it's an interesting topic and the "electrification" of acoustic instruments (apart from guitar) is stil very much "uncharted" territory (if you compare it to guitar).
I haven't got a great deal of time right now (I'm at work) so I will read your post more thoroughly later on, but one thing springs to mind. If the low frequency extension is of no concern, why did you use a 12" driver? Even with a whizzer cone these go only up until about 5kHz max., at least nowhere near 25kHz. You could try the Jordan JX-92 aluminium full range driver, but I don't think that driver reaches 25kHz, more like 15kHz.
Maybe a coaxial 10" driver like SEAS makes them could be the solution.
Regards,
Jarno.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.