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Old 30th October 2013, 10:12 PM   #11
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villex
We all do that when we match amp with speakers.
No we don't. You are confusing output impedance with optimum load impedance; a common mistake.

Quote:
To get max energy from pickup we must match pickup output impedance with the AMP input.
Not quite - you need a conjugate match. As you say, a capacitance. As I said in post 2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96
It is conceivable that it just adds a capacitor and uses the existing inductance of the pickup.
This technique is commonly used with MM turntable cartridges.

Quote:
There is a lot of simplification just to make it understandable for most of you guys.
No need to do that.

Thanks for your explanation. As expected, it is an LC circuit with the pickup forming the L.

Last edited by DF96; 30th October 2013 at 10:13 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 30th October 2013, 10:42 PM   #12
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villex View Post
Hello guys.
Of cause I wouldn't explain how in particular I recover
some of lost energy. That is my trade secret.
Respectfully, William Villex.
Hi,

Click the image to open in full size.

It is not complicated as soon as you include cable capacitance,
which I had already surmised was the case for bypass above.

If there is more to your stuff than the clearly obvious and
simple way of interpreting the above fair enough, but its
pretty clear it has to be transformer based (tapped, auto).

Turns thin/bright low output lower impedance and output
pickups into fatter/darker higher impedance and output.
By upping output and the effective interacting inductance.

It gets more complicated interacting with the passive tone
controls on guitars, and placement relative to the tone
and volume controls, simple to model in a circuit simulator.

Simplest circuit emulator IMO is the free basic TinaTi.

rgds, sreten.
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When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow

Last edited by sreten; 30th October 2013 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 30th October 2013, 11:03 PM   #13
Villex is offline Villex  United States
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Thanks for your explanation. As expected, it is an LC circuit with the pickup forming the L.[/QUOTE]

Wrong conclusion. You will never boost signal just by adding capacitor
to existing L of the pickup. You will only make it sound darker.
WV.
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Old 31st October 2013, 01:15 AM   #14
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villex View Post

Wrong conclusion. You will never boost signal just by adding capacitor
to existing L of the pickup. You will only make it sound darker.
WV.
Hi,

Don't teach your grandma to suck eggs.
I know how guitar tone controls work.

Wrong assumption *. I know exactly how your circuit works
and if you think the fact you have some transformer gain
in there is a "trade secret" your very mistaken about the
calibre of the people you are dealing with on this forum.

Guitar players are pretty clueless, we are not remotely.

rgds, sreten.

* I really can't work out how you can try to pretend
I don't know what is going on when its clearly stated.
Only as a courtesy for your "trade secret" did I imply
there might be more to it than the obvious, but then
you to imply I don't get the very obvious is just stupid.

Transformer gain will increase voltage and the reflected
inductance interacting with cable capacitance, dropping
the Frequency and Q of the resonant peak relative to
the nominal changes in the output level.

The effect of your modifications on the effectiveness
of the tone controls fitted to guitars is not explored.
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When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow

Last edited by sreten; 31st October 2013 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 31st October 2013, 01:20 AM   #15
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Greetings to all who have thus far replied.

Well, it seems that we have a lively discussion going here. This can only be helpful and advantageous to all, as long as we keep it friendly. I'm fraid that at this point, I have become a mere spectator, as I have just begun my formal education in electronics as I study for the C.E.T.a exam. I don't have a clue to as to exactly what Mr. Villex circuit is. I do know that he has stated that he is sending me one of them ,sans cash up front. I guarantee this much. When I get it, I will not have a hard time finding out if it IS an LC circuit for bass and treble cut, masquarading as a mid boost. I may not yet know theory like some do here, but I have the equipment needed to measure the output signal and know how to use it. Even better, I have two ears that function quite well. I must say that I can't believe that anybody trying to pass off a transformer, cap, and inductor, either singly, or in combination for $112.00 would send me one without having my cash in hand. However, I must also admit that I have been wrong more times than I care to admit. Thanks to Mr Villex for his posting, and thanks to all who are participating. One things for sure. I seem to learn something every time I log on to this forum, and that's what it's all about for me. "Til next time,....tonequester out.
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Old 31st October 2013, 01:51 AM   #16
Villex is offline Villex  United States
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<<Don't teach your grandma to suck eggs>> ??
Thanks, I got the idea of your calibre.
Sorry, I am not used to commuhicate in such ruth maner.
WV.
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Old 31st October 2013, 02:04 AM   #17
sreten is online now sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Well if you look at the graphs posted in post #12 they are
entirely consistent with transformer gains of 3, 5 & 7 dB.

Why is it musicians especially, dislike stripping away mystique ?

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 31st October 2013 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 31st October 2013, 03:52 AM   #18
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Smile explanation noted and appreciated, but......

Greetings to all.

tonequester here. Thanks to all who have replied, and thanks to Mr. Villex for his explanation. I am unfortunately in the beginning stage of studying for my C.E.T. I've been into music electronics, both s.s. and tube technology since 1981-82, but have been pretty much "monkey see.....monkey do. I hope within the year to be better suited to talk theory, and speculate. However, playing electric guitar for 33 years has taught me that where music is concerned, theory takes a back seat to what my ears detect. I've played more effects, both analog and digital than many here because I'm just that darned old. In truth, I don't care if Villex is using a tapped transformer in his device or not. If he is, perhaps it's been done before and I just haven't stumbled on to it in 33 years of experimenting with modifications to my guitar/amp tone. However, I doubt it. I've done the Varitone/LC circuit thing, and what I hear on the Villex sound bite is way better than anything I have heard in that regard. I'll admit that there are "tricks" that can be done with sound bites, but in my experience such scams are rare.
I tend to be trusting, and I haven't been taken yet, to any great degree. I know that the "proof is in the pudding". For me, I really don't care if Villex uses a center tapped transformer. If he does, I wonder why somebody hasn't put it into a Strat's output jack before, and made it switchable. I look forward to getting the jack as promised by Mr. Villex, and installing it without soldering as he has stated can be done. Then I will use once again the most important piece of test equipment that I can bring to bear,.......my ears. I'll be tempted to test it electronically, and even to tear it apart, but if it sounds as good as I think it will through my "rig", there'll be no need(at least the tearing apart part). I run my guitars volume at maximum. I overdrive my tubes to suit the blues and blues/rock that I play. Just the devices "packaging" is unique to me, and just the thing to be able to cut to the solo, or even to change output/tone mid solo. At the least, it turns the stock Stratocaster"s 5 tones, into 10 tones.
I am working on a way to provide a sound bite, but I realize that on THIS forum more analytical data would be appreciated. My equipment is limited here to checking signal output at a given frequency, and I'm willing to do that when I get the jack.For now, I will leave the speculation to those who have a better grasp of theory than I do, and take Mr. Villex at his word that this is not a circuit that cuts bass and treble, to give the illusion of mid range boost. However, I DO like to hear opinions about this circuit. I seem to learn at least a little, each time I check in. For that I thank everyone who has such opinion(s). tonequester out, and I hope my paragraphs don't disappear. If they do, I apologize for my forum ignorance, and my ignorance in general.
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Old 31st October 2013, 07:56 AM   #19
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Meh. There are a few things you can try.

When you get the gizmo, before you install it in your guitar, hook it up to the amp, hold it near some appliance with a transformer inside and see if it picks up hum. That would be a dead giveaway that it also has a transformer or coil inside.

Beyond that, just play it and see if you like it!

I agree 100% with sreten. The graphs give it away, the only thing it can be is a transformer. From the amp's point of view, it steps up the pickup output voltage. From the pickup's point of view it makes the cable capacitance look bigger, so the pickup's resonant peak moves down in frequency and gets more pronounced.

In musician speak, it turns your pickups into super-hot overwound ones at the flip of a switch.
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Last edited by scopeboy; 31st October 2013 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 31st October 2013, 10:22 AM   #20
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villex
Wrong conclusion. You will never boost signal just by adding capacitor
to existing L of the pickup. You will only make it sound darker.
You spoke of cable capacitance. You spoke of matching impedance (which I corrected to conjugate matching). Are you now saying that your explanation was deliberately misleading?

You offered to explain. As your first attempt failed, will you try again?
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