8 Ohm 2X12 Guitar Speaker cabinet - 2X4 Ohms in series or 2X16 Ohms in parallel? - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 6th September 2013, 02:05 PM   #21
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin View Post
Damping factor mostly affects bass...
yes, I know
and damping factor makes no or little difference to a guitar speaker with a 200hz rolloff

I was more interested in upper frequency limit
but any small difference that might occur at highest frequency are not likely to be audible with a screaming guitar on hard overdrive

we basicly agree
just looking at it differently

why I hear tweeters sound very different depending on parallel vs series, I do not know the reason for that
I have a suspicion
tweeters are not the topic
but I still find it interesting
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Old 6th September 2013, 02:23 PM   #22
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by KP11520 View Post

Should I assume it doesn't matter or might any of you have some experiences and guidance on this?
now that its mentioned that a tweeter could be an important part of the complete speaker

I would suggest to use multiple cheap tweeters
then try to connect them either in parallel or series
could even have a switch mounted for that

and you might have a two-in-one package
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Old 6th September 2013, 03:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
why I hear tweeters sound very different depending on parallel vs series, I do not know the reason for that
I have a suspicion
So do I - because they are a LOT louder in parallel than in series

They also need completely redesigned crossovers, so differences in your perceived sound from them is down to those reasons, not their parallel/serial connection.
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Old 6th September 2013, 06:03 PM   #24
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin View Post
They also need completely redesigned crossovers...
yes, that too
but they were never implemented in any speaker

yes they are louder in parallel
that would be obvious
but its more than a simple matter of SPL

a cheap horn tweeter sounding like a real softie ...
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Old 7th September 2013, 12:35 PM   #25
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In theory there's no difference if the drivers are identical.

In practice there's subtle audible difference.

In theory, if the drivers are different at all, their differences are exaggerated in series but are not in parallel. Say one driver has some frequency where the impedance goes high, but the other doesn't. With the two in series the one with the high-impedance anomaly may be quieter there, and that increased impedance in series will also turn down the volume of the other driver.

In practice, this exaggeration of anomalies is further exaggerated in cabinets that share the back volume with multiple drivers. When one driver pushes less than the other at some frequency anomaly, the back pressure from the stronger driver works against the weaker one to further decrease its output. Just like series wiring, sharing a cabinet volume requires matched drivers and anomalies are exaggerated.

But this is in high-fi terms. In loud distortion guitar sometimes the designer is actually going for some weird honking resonances and flutter modes, and just loves the horrible uncontrolled things that hi-fi engineers try to control.

IMHO for bass, or for clean guitar, in closed-back cabinets where the cabinet volume is not isolated for each driver, parallel works better. For loud distortion guitar you have to experiment but sometimes the worse theoretical wiring sounds "better" to some esthetic standards. With well-matched drivers in open-back cabinets or individual cabinets or cabinets where the internal volume is partitioned and isolated, either wiring works OK. When you have more than 2 drivers, the theoretical "clean" way is to first parallel drivers so that their anomalies are statistically averaged, then put those more-consistent parallel sets with their more consistent averaged response and averaged impedance curves' combined and reduced anomalies in series to achieve the desired impedance.

Some famous rock amps put the drivers in series, then those series strings in parallel. I doubt it was planned, but the 'non-optimal' wiring adds to the honking characteristic signature sounds, and extreme complexity of overtones especially when close-miked.

So 2X16 in parallel is playing it safe and the hi-fi preference, but in the rock world you may find some greenbacks in series sounding very British...but they won't be 4 ohms, you might be looking for a 32-ohm tap on the output transformer.

Last edited by cyclecamper; 7th September 2013 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 12th September 2013, 11:56 PM   #26
ivan H is offline ivan H  Australia
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Hi, sorry for hijacking this thread, I just wanted to ask Nigel or Cyclecamper a question about wiring a 4x12 cabinet as they seem very knowledgeable about this.
So I want to wire the cabinet using a pair of greenbacks (25W/16 ohm) & a pair of Vintage 30's (60W/16 ohm). I want to wire them with 1 greenback & 1 Vintage 30 in each series wired pair then parallel the 2 pairs. My question is, with the 2 speakers having different power handling capability, should I wire the + to the Vintage 30 & the - to the greenback in each pair or the other way around, or does it not matter either way. Thanks in advance. Cheers

Last edited by ivan H; 13th September 2013 at 12:03 AM. Reason: Add to
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Old 13th September 2013, 08:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan H View Post
Hi, sorry for hijacking this thread, I just wanted to ask Nigel or Cyclecamper a question about wiring a 4x12 cabinet as they seem very knowledgeable about this.
So I want to wire the cabinet using a pair of greenbacks (25W/16 ohm) & a pair of Vintage 30's (60W/16 ohm). I want to wire them with 1 greenback & 1 Vintage 30 in each series wired pair then parallel the 2 pairs. My question is, with the 2 speakers having different power handling capability, should I wire the + to the Vintage 30 & the - to the greenback in each pair or the other way around, or does it not matter either way. Thanks in advance. Cheers
It's essential to connect the series pairs +ve to -ve, otherwise they cancel each other out to some degree.
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Old 13th September 2013, 11:15 PM   #28
ivan H is offline ivan H  Australia
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Thanks for the responce Nigel. While I know extremely little regarding speakers, I was aware I how to connect them correctly is series. Maybe I didnt phrase my question correctly (appologies). What I wanted to ask about was the positioning of the 25W & the 60W speaker in the series chain. It doesnt really matter, right??? They both have the same power on them??? Thanks again.
Cheers

Last edited by ivan H; 13th September 2013 at 11:25 PM. Reason: Add to
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Old 13th September 2013, 11:28 PM   #29
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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being different speakers, some of the possible 'variations' may sound different
I guess you may have to experiment a little

powerhandling
two in paralel means they play louder
and thus needs less power

don't know if series connection has any effect on power handling


btw, did you post the actual impedance of your different drivers ?
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Old 13th September 2013, 11:36 PM   #30
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan H View Post
Hi, sorry for hijacking this thread, I just wanted to ask Nigel or Cyclecamper a question about wiring a 4x12 cabinet as they seem very knowledgeable about this.
So I want to wire the cabinet using a pair of greenbacks (25W/16 ohm) & a pair of Vintage 30's (60W/16 ohm). I want to wire them with 1 greenback & 1 Vintage 30 in each series wired pair then parallel the 2 pairs. My question is, with the 2 speakers having different power handling capability, should I wire the + to the Vintage 30 & the - to the greenback in each pair or the other way around, or does it not matter either way. Thanks in advance. Cheers
Hi,

You have a choice of a 4 ohm (all parallel) or 16 ohm cabinet.

Listen to the drivers and put the brightest pair on the top.

I'd wire the two left in series in parallel with the two right in series.

rgds, sreten.
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