Peavey Triumph 60 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Live Sound > Instruments and Amps

Instruments and Amps Everything that makes music, Especially including instrument amps.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th July 2013, 01:15 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
badraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: The heart of the South, in other words -Redneck Territory lol
Default Peavey Triumph 60

Hello All!

I procured a Peavey Tube amp head about two weeks ago. I have been experimenting with adjustments, tried a different set of 6L6GC (Currently has 6L6GCW's from Tube Depot with original Peavey brand 12AX7's and a12AT7)

I read last night on a post that you can take one of the power tubes out and it won't hurt anything. I am curious if this is true. I don't want to do something stupid and cause myself some heartache.
It makes sense to me because if one of the power tube is missing, there is no potential for current. But then again if there is current needing a place to go because the system is designed to need both tube, then I could see this being a problem too. Can someone clarify please?

Also:
This amp has MAJOR overdrive. Even with the drive backed off so far that the volume drops off to nothing, the overdrive is too much. I was doing some reading on the eurotube.com site and they have a retube kit that will drop the over drive by about 40%. I am wondering if someone here has done something like this? I would really like to drop back on the overdrive and work towards something more usable: something well below the "Head Banger" mode this amp seems to be stuck in.

I have read about a couple of mods that are supposed to make a nice difference in this amp. 1 mod makes it so you have tone control on the drive channels. This mod was already done. The second mod is bypassing CR1 and CR2. This mod appears to be done already as well.

Honestly I am wishing I could find someone with a tube amp that is too tame for them and make a trade. But I doubt that's gonna happen before I do some mods of my own.

Lastly, I found that lowing the bias in my solid state amp I got much better tone. I am wondering if I can make the bias adjustable in this amp so I can try lowering it to see if it improves the tone like the SS did.


Thanks for your help!

Jeff
__________________
If at first you dont succeed, perhaps it isn't your bag. Lol...
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2013, 01:16 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
badraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: The heart of the South, in other words -Redneck Territory lol
Smile Schematic attached

Here's the schematic.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Triumph 60 Schematic.pdf (830.3 KB, 66 views)
__________________
If at first you dont succeed, perhaps it isn't your bag. Lol...
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2013, 01:32 AM   #3
eyoung is offline eyoung  United States
diyAudio Member
 
eyoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sunny SC,USA 15 min south of Charlotte NC
I'm thinking with 500V on the B+ go to an EL34 or 6550(6L6 is not designed for 500v 425v is more like it) and just use the two inner sockets and set bias with a scope and a bias probe.
just my thoughts ....

regards, Elwood
__________________
"Lead me not into temptation...I can find it myself."
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2013, 01:43 AM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
badraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: The heart of the South, in other words -Redneck Territory lol
eyoung thanks for the reply. The schematic shows 6L6gc tubes and the chassis is labeled the same. I think these are what was designed into the amp.

I think EL34's are going to produce even more overdrive aren't they? Or do I have that backwards?

The Triumph 60 only has two power tubes. The 120 is the one with the quad of tubes.

Thanks!
Jeff
__________________
If at first you dont succeed, perhaps it isn't your bag. Lol...
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2013, 08:48 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hawkes Bay
You could progressively remove/ disconnect C14, 15, 18 +/or reduce R27.

I have a Triumph 120 with the two outer tubes removed.

I am also looking at adding a triode/pentode switch, and maybe a VVR or MOSFET B+ reducer cos this is one LOUD amp.

Cheers
JimG
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2013, 11:38 PM   #6
Enzo is offline Enzo  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lansing, Michigan
BR, I think you have a couple things confused.

If you remove one power tube from a pair, it won't hurt anything, but it also won't work right. I think what you have in your mind is when people talk about the 120w version, they suggest removing one PAIR of tubes from the amp, leaving the remaining pair, and causing the amp to become the 60 watt version of itself.

This is a push pull amp, and if you remove one power tube, all you have is push (or maybe only the pull). Since it is class AB, at lower volumes you might get all the waveform, but at higher levels, you start to lose the part that slips into class B territory. If you are hearing "overdrive" at low levels, perhaps it is this missing power tube you are hearing.

Think of it as a choir group, and none of the altos show up to sing.

Before you remotely start looking to modify the amp, do yourself a huge favor. Get the amp working correctly, THEN think about modifications. It makes no sense top start changing a bunch of stuff w3hen the basic underlying amplifier isn't even working right. And besides, once it is correct, you might just LIKE the way it sounds. If you have a stone in your shoe, do you think about ways to put padding around it so you don't feel it, or do you think about removing the stone?

The biasing of a solid state amp is really not much like biasing in the tube amp. This is one of the things to leave for later, it is not going to do what you expect.


Power tube overdrive only occurs when you overdrive them. In this 60 watt amp, if you are lazing along at 20 watts, the4 power tubes are not overdriving. It won't matter 6L6, EL34 or 6550, they won't be overdriving until the amp is fully maxed out. SO changing to EL34 is not going to change the amount of overdrive.


This amp is 100% designed around 6L6 tubes. 500v may be high according to the book, but it is dead on stock in this amp, and in MANY MANY other 6L6 guitar amps.

The stock bias is not adjustable, and is -56v by design. (Within the normal voltage variations in a typical amp) The supply can be easily enough be modified to reduce the bias voltage to run the tubes hotter, but if you want higher voltage on the bias you will have to add a voltage multiplier or reconfigure the supply in some other fashion. If we were to engineer EL34 into this amp, you would want to drop the bias to about -42v.

BUT BE CAREFUL. If you want to use EL34 in this amp, then you DO need to make changes. The 60 watt Triumph has no screen resistors, and your EL34s would want them. Cut traces and add them to the power tube board. The bias would have to change. Pin 8 is the cathode and is already grounded, but the EL34 also needs pin 1 to be grounded. Pin 1 in a 6L6 is not used, so Peavey was free to use pin1 for other conveniences, which they did. The heater current to pin 7 passes through pin 1 on this board. You'd need to cut traces and rewire the heater pins 7 plus rewire pins 1 to the adjacent pin 8 of each socket. The other major concern would be that the EL34 wants 600ma more heater current per tube, so we are asking the power transformer for another 1.2 amps. Peavey did not use the same power transformer for both 120w and 60w models. But fortunately, Peavey power transformers are generally made very robust, and should at least have no trouble with more heaters.

Last edited by Enzo; 5th July 2013 at 11:44 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2013, 02:03 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
badraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: The heart of the South, in other words -Redneck Territory lol
Smile Enzo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
BR, I think you have a couple things confused.
No argument there Enzo. lol
Quote:
This is a push pull amp, and if you remove one power tube, all you have is push (or maybe only the pull). Since it is class AB, at lower volumes you might get all the waveform, but at higher levels, you start to lose the part that slips into class B territory. If you are hearing "overdrive" at low levels, perhaps it is this missing power tube you are hearing.
Well this is why I ask before trying something like this. I understand the push/pull concept from my research when I was working on my Fender amp. That's why I was asking because I don't see how things are going to work if I pull one power tube.
It makes sense that people with the 120 may pull two tube to make it a 60.

I'm not hearing anything funky yet (other than gobbs of overdrive) and I haven't removed a tube. The only thing I have done so far, aside from endless experimenting with settings, pedals etc, is to pull each tube, spray the contacts with cleaner and slide them in and out several times to clean the contacts and sockets.


Quote:
Before you remotely start looking to modify the amp, do yourself a huge favor. Get the amp working correctly, THEN think about modifications. It makes no sense top start changing a bunch of stuff w3hen the basic underlying amplifier isn't even working right. And besides, once it is correct, you might just LIKE the way it sounds.
I don't think the amp is malfunctioning. If I were after a hard rock sound I would be happy just the way it is. This amp has a lot of body to the sound. Its way different from my Fender. I love my Fender! I am honestly very happy with the results. But after hearing some tube amps, I see there are improvements to be had. I wish I could get a fuller tone from it like this Peavey because the Fender is the sound I am after, its just missing that tube element. If I could get my Fender to produce even half the body this Peavey does, I would totally be happy.

The Peavey is certainly usable as is because it has a bitchin sound, just not what I am currently after. I was holding out for a Valve King 112 but this deal came along and I couldn't turn it down.

Quote:
The biasing of a solid state amp is really not much like biasing in the tube amp. This is one of the things to leave for later, it is not going to do what you expect.
Ok. I was thinking it would produce similar results because I used to have a Carvin X100B that I modded to have adjustable bias and I experimented with with bias settings and it made a difference. It wasn't as dramatic a change as I get on my Fender but it was a noticeable difference.

Quote:
BUT BE CAREFUL. If you want to use EL34 in this amp, then you DO need to make changes. The 60 watt Triumph has no screen resistors, and your EL34s would want them. Cut traces and add them to the power tube board. The bias would have to change. Pin 8 is the cathode and is already grounded, but the EL34 also needs pin 1 to be grounded. Pin 1 in a 6L6 is not used, so Peavey was free to use pin1 for other conveniences, which they did. The heater current to pin 7 passes through pin 1 on this board. You'd need to cut traces and rewire the heater pins 7 plus rewire pins 1 to the adjacent pin 8 of each socket. The other major concern would be that the EL34 wants 600ma more heater current per tube, so we are asking the power transformer for another 1.2 amps. Peavey did not use the same power transformer for both 120w and 60w models. But fortunately, Peavey power transformers are generally made very robust, and should at least have no trouble with more heaters.
I have no desire to make such big changes. I'm not interested in changes to EL34's anyway. It was just a question based upon an earlier comment.

As always, I really appreciate your teachings. You always explain things so that we can gain a working knowledge and make educated decisions.

Thank you!
__________________
If at first you dont succeed, perhaps it isn't your bag. Lol...
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2013, 02:14 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hawkes Bay
Just to clarify - is the clean channel clean?
Is it just the crunch and ultra channel that is too over the top for you?
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2013, 02:15 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
badraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: The heart of the South, in other words -Redneck Territory lol
Here's a link to the page at eurotubes.com with the Peavey tube sets.

https://www.eurotubes.com/cart/index...category_id=93


Peavey Ultra 60 Full Low Gain Retube KitPrice: $87.00 Description: For you guys who want to tame the gain a bit in these amps. This includes a matched pair of the JJ 6L6GC's, one standard ECC83S for V1, two ECC832's for V2 and V3 which lowers the gain in the crunch and Ultra channel by about 40% and one balanced ECC83S for the phase inverter in V4.

Seems like these would get me closer to what I am looking for. That's why I was originally asking for input.

Thanks!
__________________
If at first you dont succeed, perhaps it isn't your bag. Lol...
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2013, 02:18 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
badraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: The heart of the South, in other words -Redneck Territory lol
Default djgibson51

Quote:
Originally Posted by djgibson51 View Post
Just to clarify - is the clean channel clean?
Is it just the crunch and ultra channel that is too over the top for you?
The clean channel is nice. It is very similar to the clean channel on my former Carvin tube amp. Its ballsey but clean. I haven't turned it up real loud on the clean channel but I bet it sizzles at high volume.

Thanks!
__________________
If at first you dont succeed, perhaps it isn't your bag. Lol...
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Peavey Classic 60/60 bias mod advice RIC Tubes / Valves 7 4th November 2013 10:34 PM
Peavey 60/60 classic series schematic nanodocl Tubes / Valves 2 22nd April 2012 10:28 AM
Peavey VTM 60 vs Orange Tiny Terror avh48 Tubes / Valves 8 9th November 2011 06:30 AM
can I tone control the Peavey Classic 60/60 RIC Tubes / Valves 2 24th March 2005 04:27 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:34 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2