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Old 11th January 2013, 09:28 PM   #11
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

With a 4x12" main guitar cabinet a 1x15" bass cabinet
is a hopeless addition that will never work effectively.

If you can't EQ it with your 4x12 you can't do it.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 11th January 2013, 09:38 PM   #12
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stringking View Post
I'm already running a Marshall into a 4x12 ....
what kind of 12" is that ?
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Old 12th January 2013, 01:29 AM   #13
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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Here's two of them:
Click the image to open in full size.
The most popular use is 4 of them into a square, closed back 4x12"cabinet.
Often angled to direct some extra sound into the player's ears.

*This* is what I'm suggesting: same cab loaded with 4 special 400W each EVM12L , "Black Label" model:
Click the image to open in full size.

Bone crushing.
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Old 12th January 2013, 03:00 AM   #14
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A clean guitar has a higher bass content than a distorted guitar, because the distortion is mostly harmonics. The harder you crank it the lower the total bass content in the composite signal. The lowest note on a standard guitar is about 82 Hz. With drop tuning you might get into the high 60's before fret buzz from loose strings tames your playing style. 82 Hz even powered by a 1.21 Jiggowatt amplifier will not tear down the house walls.

I have a system that shakes the whole house and can be heard inside the house across the street. It uses a single budget 15 inch Dayton sub with the matching 300 watt plate amp. How????? Well, we know that 82 Hz and a cheap sub doesn't work, so what do we do? We need to synthesise one or two lower octaves and send them, and only them, to the sub. The regular guitar signal goes unprocessed to the guitar amp.

There are several devices on the market for synthesizing a lower octave, but most of them only work on single notes at a time. I have experimented with several circuits that worked with varying degrees of success. The better ones used a seperate piezo pickup on the lower two or three strings, feeding each to an octave divider.

The simplest way (but not the cheapest) to do this is to fit your guitar with a MIDI pickup and converter box. I got a used Roland system on Ebay several years ago and still use it. You set it up to output the same notes that you play on the guitar, and route the MIDI data to one or more synthesizers. Set up one synth to play a phat Moog bass line one octave below your guitar signal. Route its output to a seperate amp (the SVT maybe) that will be happy with a bass guitar signal. This plays down to 41 Hz. Use this sound for maximum volume. I am using a home made bass amp with 125 watts and a single 15 inch Eminence bass guitar speaker.

Set up another synth, or another voice on the same synth for two octaves below the guitar notes. This will go down to 20.5 Hz so a real sub is needed. I am using the Dayton sub, but I don't need to blow the house down. This doesn't need to be super loud, but the low bass provides the realism.

The original guitar signal goes to a conventional guitar amp which can be cranked to 11, or as clean as you want. Volume pedals on the guitar and bass synth give the system more flexibility for playing live.
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Old 12th January 2013, 05:25 PM   #15
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So this speaker: http://www.vibeaudio.co.uk/car/blackdeath-subwoofers/ and the SVT-6Pro with a crossover wouldn't work? The speaker states a peak of 20,000 watts. I'm sure the RMS of this speaker could handle the Ampeg full out and completely square-waved and distorted without frying the coil.
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Old 12th January 2013, 07:43 PM   #16
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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Quote:
So this speaker: http://www.vibeaudio.co.uk/car/blackdeath-subwoofers/ and the SVT-6Pro with a crossover wouldn't work?
No.

Quote:
The speaker states a peak of 20,000 watts.
So what? It's a ***CAR*** speaker.

Quote:
I'm sure the RMS of this speaker could handle the Ampeg full out and completely square-waved and distorted without frying the coil.
What makes you sure of that?

Only thing you can be sure of (and not even much certainty of that) , is that *maybe* it will handle the output of this "6000 (Car) Watts" amplifier:
Click the image to open in full size.
Which you can get for all of GBP99 (around 160U$)
Hey!! It even has high tech Leds, how's that?
Auna W2-AC600 6-Channel Car Amplifier with LED Lights 6000W
GBP99.90 Incl. VAT
RRP: GBP129.90
(you save 23%)
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Old 12th January 2013, 07:54 PM   #17
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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please, this is supposed to be a serious forum about music related technology
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Old 12th January 2013, 09:17 PM   #18
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But isn't this a question of amplifier power vs. speaker power handling capability? A lower wattage speaker will most certainly fry with too much current/wattage.....no? And a speaker rated way over the amplifiers output will not. What am I not seeing here?
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Old 12th January 2013, 10:13 PM   #19
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stringking View Post
What am I not seeing here?
Hi,

I'd guess annoying the bass player, more than anything else. Live,
do your job and don't make anyone else's job any more difficult.

As a bass player I can't do with guitarists with octave pedals
and the like, they are far worse than guitarists playing bass,
at least for the latter no bass players are forced to suffer

If you can't get everything you need out of a 4x12 Marshall
cabinet, I'd suggest your kidding yourself about more low
end. Doesn't work for bass, and certainly not for guitar.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 12th January 2013 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 12th January 2013, 11:20 PM   #20
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I understand your point about it being a bit annoying to a bass player, but as the rythym player in my band with a bass player who doesn't show on occasion, I'm trying to get my guitar as low down as possible. And, to rattle my bones with as much bass as I can get along with the 4x12. Mids and highs from the 4x12, low end balls from the 15".
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