Hi, dont let lack of design knowledge hold u back from building, u'l find it very rewarding & educational. I would suggest also joining the Metro Amp forum, between this forum & metro amp forum u'll get any help u may need, & the meto amp forum more or less specialize in plexi marshalls (1959 etc). There is a sticky on their site on calculating r/c constants & like here, there's some very knowledgeable people there. Just to correct wot was said about the 2203 master volume marshall a few posts back, the first (Hi Input) gain stage of the 2203 & 50W 2204 models is the same as the first "Bright" stage on a 1959 or 1987, the output of this is then routed, via a 470k/470pf treble peaker, thru the Lo input to a cold biased stage with an unbypassed 10k cathode resistor. From there its pretty much the same as a plexi bright channel with the exception of the last gain stage b4 the cathode follower using a 470k grid leak,,, & of course the master vol, inserted between the tone stack & PI. BTW, a Les Paul straight into a plexi or JCM800 is one of the definitive classic rock tones. Cheers
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Hi, just to let u know, Metro Amp is again offering 50 watt plexi kits. They r not advertised yet in the store section, but I saw in the 50 watt forum this morning that as of Nov 1 they've been taking orders for, & as was pointed out in the last post, Metro's are as good as it gets when it comes to replicating plexi's. I dont know the friend ur considering building for's situation, but is he really in need of a 100 watter. If he's never stood in front of a cranked full stack (& cranked or near craned is where they sound best), let me tell u, its bloody loud. A 50 watter is more practical in that u can use it at most venues like clubs & pubs & the like & have it turned up to where it sounds & feels good, where as a with a 100 watter u would need to use some kind of attenuator. Also, FWIW, many players actually prefer the tone of the 50 watt model 1987 plexi, like Jeff Beck. Admittedly, if u r in a position to b able to use the full troated (& very loud) roar of a cranked wide open 100 watt plexi, there is nothing else like it. Just make sure he is sure of his needs. I would love a 100 watt full stack, but realistically, I couldnt use it, which why I have built 50's & I'm now starting on a SIR #39 build that will also b a 50 watt. Cheers
Hi, just to let u know, Metro Amp is again offering 50 watt plexi kits. They r not advertised yet in the store section, but I saw in the 50 watt forum this morning that as of Nov 1 they've been taking orders for, & as was pointed out in the last post, Metro's are as good as it gets when it comes to replicating plexi's. I dont know the friend ur considering building for's situation, but is he really in need of a 100 watter. If he's never stood in front of a cranked full stack (& cranked or near craned is where they sound best), let me tell u, its bloody loud. A 50 watter is more practical in that u can use it at most venues like clubs & pubs & the like & have it turned up to where it sounds & feels good, where as a with a 100 watter u would need to use some kind of attenuator. Also, FWIW, many players actually prefer the tone of the 50 watt model 1987 plexi, like Jeff Beck. Admittedly, if u r in a position to b able to use the full troated (& very loud) roar of a cranked wide open 100 watt plexi, there is nothing else like it. Just make sure he is sure of his needs. I would love a 100 watt full stack, but realistically, I couldnt use it, which why I have built 50's & I'm now starting on a SIR #39 build that will also b a 50 watt. Cheers
Thanks Ivan. You know, I had asked him the exact same question, because I know how loud my little 2x8W Single Ended HiFi Tube amp is that I built...
He said he wanted the 1959SLP because that's what Jimmy Page used and he is after that sound. What do I know, I don't even play guitar. ;-)
He also said about the 100W - and I quote - that "I want this because going to town on my Les Paul with 100W of valve amp wide open is what I do to prevent me from killing people."
I don't think he's really that violent, but that probably does for him what playing Squash for four hours each week does to me... (other than getting me closer to this ).
I will ask him again, though. It would make testing the amp easier for me as well, because I neither have a 100W dummy load nor a speaker/cabinet that would not go up in fumes with that kind of input. Oh yeah, and no guitar either.
Thanks for your additional thoughts, much appreciated!!
Well, if that keeps him from killing people. It'd b a good idea to check out the 50 watt Metro Amp kit. For around a grand u get a complete 50 watt head kit with Heyboer Transformers & choke, with the option of Mercury Magnetics (probably add cost, I'd take Heyboer, thats wot I use), choice of valves, sozo caps, Point to Point board,, very complete & quality kit complete with cabinet. They are also available in partial kits I think. My last build I just used the Metro JTM45 chassis & plexi panels & got Heyboer trannies & choke & PTP board from links on their site, then sourced Mallory & Sprague caps, F&T electro's, Vishay Dale 1w metal films, valves etc myself for around the same cost, but if a kit had been available at that time, b easier. Cheers
Just to correct about the 50w kits, (I read the post date from wrong post), the chassis & plexi panels r available from Metro, with site links to Heyboer or Mercury Magnetics, with the component kits being available thru Valvestorm, also site linked. The 1959 is also available. U can also get chassis & transformers from Marstran, who also do good products. I have a PT from Marstran,,, well made. Cheers
You should be aware that even if you copy the schematic perfectly, the final amp may or may really sound like a vintage amp of the same type.
Even if you try to copy the parts *types* from the vintage amp and build new, it still may not sound the same. It could be different, better or worse, but very likely not quite the same.
I have seen lots of people try to copy name brand amps, and what you get is an amp that is just somehow different.
It would help to have a genuine Marshall OT and Power iron to get off to a good start, and stick with the same type and power resistors and pots, not switching to "better" parts.
But these are good fun projects...
tubelab, I seem to recall seeing "Park" amps around and thinking, "huh, somebody is copying Marshall, it's probably cheap crap..." Ha ha.
_-_-bear
Even if you try to copy the parts *types* from the vintage amp and build new, it still may not sound the same. It could be different, better or worse, but very likely not quite the same.
I have seen lots of people try to copy name brand amps, and what you get is an amp that is just somehow different.
It would help to have a genuine Marshall OT and Power iron to get off to a good start, and stick with the same type and power resistors and pots, not switching to "better" parts.
But these are good fun projects...
tubelab, I seem to recall seeing "Park" amps around and thinking, "huh, somebody is copying Marshall, it's probably cheap crap..." Ha ha.
_-_-bear
Yes, this is true Bear. Even with origonal amps, no 2 really sound "exactly" the same, & the transformers have a bit of variation, OT's can have a few ohms difference on either side of the primary, B+ voltages vary, & the same models can have different brand transformers, ie Radio Spares, Drake or Dagnall, plus marshall was continually making small changes to the circuitry, so a plexi is not really an exact specific circuit, which year plexi does he want. My last build I used a M@rsh@ll PT & a Heyboer OT that is an exact rewind of an old origonal that is supposed to be "aged" to sound & react like a 35+ yr old transformer, tho how they do this I dont know. Some people swear by sozo caps while others will tell u that the Mallory 150 series caps sound closest to wot was orionally used. Alpha pots & Cliff jack sockets r pretty well standard. Some also will use carbon comp resistors tho I prefer Vishay Dale 1w metal films for a low noise floor. Regardless, if u take the time to do it properly & ask about anything u r unsure of u'll end up with an amp that will very much get u in the ballpark soundwise, maybe even sound better than some if ur lucky, & the building experiance will be very rewarding & u'll learn a bunch along the way. Cheers
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