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Old 1st December 2012, 06:32 PM   #11
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Default Very, VERY helpful!

Thanks so much, guys, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences.

I acknowledge the fact that a guitar amp can't generally sound right or wrong based on some synthetic spec. There are too many artists out there who achieved great success with THEIR sound (besides obvious technique of playing the instrument). This is why I am a bit hesitant to delve into the project. I have really no knowledge of how to interpret potential requests for a more 'tinny', 'gooey' or 'creamy' sound and - more importantly - how to achieve those effects with modifications of the circuit. It will be a lot of trial and error, I am sure.

The only thing that keeps me researching this further is my desire to do something different and learn something new along the way.
The 'D' in DIY in my case unfortunately doesn't really stand for 'design' as I lack the fundamental theoretical knowledge about these kinds of circuits. This doesn't mean I don't know how a tube works or how you achieve gain or implement certain filter networks, but is more related to how to do the math that is foundational to it all. As I always say: Four out of three Germans are bad at math (I am German). :-)

So 'D' for me means being pretty good at building stuff given known to be working designs, and build it solidly. In other words, I can confidently apply all the practical things, like how to solder, wire dress, layout stuff, etc.

I will do some more digging as to what exactly my buddy is looking for and why he is specifically interested in it. All he said was that it is known to produce the sound he likes with his Les Paul and the humbucker (?) pickup he is using.

I'll also try to find someone that has this amp and is willing to (let me) take some pictures; a great idea proposed by someone earlier in this thread.

The metroamp forum indeed seems to be a great place to ask for more help, although I am always a bit hesitant to ask, given that I can't really give back much on the topic. You know, the sharing is caring thing.

Anyway, thank you again for all your help and advice, you guys rock (probably also literally)!
Cheers,
Stefan
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Old 1st December 2012, 08:10 PM   #12
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One of my many projects is to clone a Park 1207.

What is a Park 1207? According to internet sources, it is a Marshall 2203 super lead, which is a 1959 with a master volume control added.

Many people know that Jim Marshall had a distribution contract for 10 years that required all of his amps sold in the US to go through his US distributor who added as much as 40% to the price, making a Marshall amp rather expensive in the US. The distributor was also pulling out the EL34's and installing KT88's, 6550's or 6CA7's in an attempt to improve reliability, changing the amps tone character.

Jim began selling his amps under several other brand names direct to importers in the US, and possibly other countries. The most common brands were Park and CMI qnd NARB. From what I can tell they were made in batches, one or two a year from whatever excess inventory that was in the Marshall factory at the time. No two batches were the same. Sometimes they were just Marshall guts in a different box, and some were mix and match from different Marshall amps. Estimates of the total number of Park amps ever made range from a few hundred to just over 1000. Documentation is non existent. Some sources on the web say that the 1207 is the rarest model.

Why do I want to clone the 1207?

I actually have an unmolested original, and I don't want to mess with it, so I will make a copy, and sell the original to someone who really wants it. I saw this amp in a junk shop in rural Georgia about 10 years ago. The shop owner had said that it was broken and he didn't want to sell it until he had fixed it. I didn't know what it was at the time, and it was rather ugly. I bought a box full of tubes from him and left.

A few years ago the shop owner passed away, and a surplus dealer that I know bought his entire estate. I got the amp, cheap. It had a note attached that said "blows fuses". It did. It was tattered and dirty, with the Tolex peeling so I tossed it in my closet and forgot about it.

About a year ago I saw a 1207 go for almost $2000 on Ebay, so I got the old amp out of the closet. I opened it up. It was obvious that nobody had been in it before. It is pristine inside. I popped in a fuse, hit the switch, and there was a bright blue flash inside one of the output tubes as the fuse blew. I replaced all 4 tubes with EH EL34's and tried again. The amp works great. As with most Marshalls it is LOUD, neighbors call the cops kind of loud! I played around with it for about a week before putting it back in the closet because I needed the bench space.

I noticed that the amp had a clean layout. The tube sockets, transformers, pots and large caps were chassis mounted, but all the small parts were mounted on a PC board. The PC board has the Marshall logo screened onto it.

I plan to get the amp out and document it so that it can be cloned. This includes the PC board. I probably won't get to this until next year, probably February at least, because of a heavy work schedule coming up.

Park 1207 100 Watt Guitar Amp Head - YouTube

park 1207 - YouTube

Amp Archives/Marshall/Park and CMI/Park/79 Park 100W 1207
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Old 1st December 2012, 09:09 PM   #13
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Default Cool!

Thanks George, I'll run this by my buddy, too.
Cool story how that amp finally made it into your hands after some years. Funny how things sometimes work themselves out.

Great to hear that you are planning to clone your 1207.
Heck, being a beneficiary of your PCBs and excellent documentation for my various Tubelab projects, I may well see what's coming out of your effort. If you need a beta-builder, let me know! ;-)
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Old 5th December 2012, 12:44 AM   #14
ivan H is offline ivan H  Australia
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Hi, in the past I have built a 1987 m@rsh@ll clone from a schematic using a PT donated from an old aussie "Vadis" amp & a JCM800 OT, with no problem, their a straight forward 50 watt design similar to the 100 watt 1959. I recently built another cross between a JTM45 & model 1987 on a Metro Amp Chassis/Plexi Panels using a Heyboer OT & Filter Choke, using a PTP board that I got from a link on the Metro Amp site, again using just the 2 schematics & a layout for the JTM50 PTP board. No problem & works & sounds great. Heyboer trannies r well priced & IMO really good. Metro Amp Forum & this forum will get u thru any hicups. I say go for it. Cheers
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Old 10th December 2012, 10:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan H View Post
Hi, in the past I have built a 1987 m@rsh@ll clone from a schematic using a PT donated from an old aussie "Vadis" amp & a JCM800 OT, with no problem, their a straight forward 50 watt design similar to the 100 watt 1959. I recently built another cross between a JTM45 & model 1987 on a Metro Amp Chassis/Plexi Panels using a Heyboer OT & Filter Choke, using a PTP board that I got from a link on the Metro Amp site, again using just the 2 schematics & a layout for the JTM50 PTP board. No problem & works & sounds great. Heyboer trannies r well priced & IMO really good. Metro Amp Forum & this forum will get u thru any hicups. I say go for it. Cheers
Thanks for the tips and encouragement, Ivan. I appreciate it!
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Old 10th December 2012, 10:46 PM   #16
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We get Park amps here too but hav seen nothing like that. all small practice amps 10-20 watt and i suspect made in china under license to marshal.

Best way to learn is do it, so jump in with both feet. (like me did my first tube amp last year from a kit, now hav 3 amp builds on the go all from scratch bassed on modafied fender schematics. no kits and mostly guess work, if they don't end up the way i want I'll learn even more fixing em.)
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Old 10th December 2012, 11:47 PM   #17
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I read somewhere on the internet that Marshall started using the Park name on some small Chinese solid state amps. I guess they want to keep up with Fender in the junk department. You can buy a Fender Stratocaster in the big box stores for just over $100 now. There is even a Fender branded car audio system available on some new Volkswagen cars. I wonder if it has a 1/4 inch jack to plug in your Strat?????
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Old 11th December 2012, 04:13 AM   #18
Enzo is offline Enzo  United States
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The Park name has been around longer than that, and some old Park amps are not bad amps. Using the Park name let Marshall build amps and sell them in markets that already had Marshall franchisees. If store A had the Marshall franschise in an area, Marshall couldn't just up and sell more amps to their competitor, store B. So they made similar amps that they COULD sell to the competitor. Now Store A's frnachise is protected, Store B had product to sell, and Marshall gets to sell them both.
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Old 11th December 2012, 07:38 PM   #19
ivan H is offline ivan H  Australia
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Hi, b4 making amps Jim Marshall had a drum shop (& gave lessons). When he started making amps they were distributed thru friends in the music retail business. Signing with Rose Morris meant this all came to an end, which Jim felt bad about, so they started building amps under the name Park, which was Jim's wifes maiden name so as to not clse the door on the friends who helped him in the start. This meant they could also get a bit creative with the circuit design, so there is some interesting models out there. They also made amps under the name Kitchen Marshall, I suppose because they were made on Jim's kitchen table. Back to the point, if u need or would like a layout for the 1959 (or others) u'll get on either the Metro Amp site or the Ceriatone site. U can also get quality transformers for these amps from Marstran (Brian Wallace also has an extensive library on all things tube amp on his site), & I hear that Classic Tone transformers are also very good. Cheers

Last edited by ivan H; 11th December 2012 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 12th December 2012, 01:12 AM   #20
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I like Triode..... Triode USA Tube Amp Kits Transformers Tubes Dynaco Upgrades and Parts for transformers, inexpensive and good quality. Try some google searches for "1959 Marshall layout". Look at images you will find lots of help.

Last edited by jeeptechfred; 12th December 2012 at 01:13 AM. Reason: my spelling sucks
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