Hi,
The Blackstar series one 200 says its a 200W amplifier.
Blackstar Series One 200 Guitar Amplifier
But does that mean 200 VA (apparent power) or is it 200W of real power?
-Also, does it use a Power Factor Correction stage?
The Blackstar series one 200 says its a 200W amplifier.
Blackstar Series One 200 Guitar Amplifier
But does that mean 200 VA (apparent power) or is it 200W of real power?
-Also, does it use a Power Factor Correction stage?
Questions such as this are best addressed to the manufacturer I would think??
The power specified is the amplifier's output power which is specified as 200W so power consumption would be much higher than this at full output power.. Since it is presumably a class A/B amplifier in normal use and has lots of filaments to heat I would assume real power consumed is going to be well in excess of 75W..
I've yet to see a tube amplifier that uses power factor correction. The supply is probably a traditional power transformer into a FWB or similar.
Not sure what your angle is here..
The power specified is the amplifier's output power which is specified as 200W so power consumption would be much higher than this at full output power.. Since it is presumably a class A/B amplifier in normal use and has lots of filaments to heat I would assume real power consumed is going to be well in excess of 75W..
I've yet to see a tube amplifier that uses power factor correction. The supply is probably a traditional power transformer into a FWB or similar.
Not sure what your angle is here..
I have read EN61000 regulations from start to finish and there is no exemption on Power Factor Correction for Audio Power Supplies for guitar amps.
So i cannot understand why virtually NOT ONE single guitar amp in the world with power above 75W uses Power Factor Correction.
Is it a case of, as long as every body disobeys the regulations, then we're all OK?
So i cannot understand why virtually NOT ONE single guitar amp in the world with power above 75W uses Power Factor Correction.
Is it a case of, as long as every body disobeys the regulations, then we're all OK?
Because there's no such requirement - why are you obsessed by PFC?.
PFC is mostly only relevent to large industrial plant - although modern TV's now tend to have PFC correction PSU's.
But i don't think anything else domestic has PFC?.
Most better computer PSU do at least here..
I think it is also the case that most audio gear runs for a limited amount of time each day or even week as compared to most computers and TV sets. (Diminishing returns at high expense and some possible compromise in reliability - more parts and complexity afterall.)
PFC isn't only needed to pass the regulations.........for a SMPS with more than a few hundred watts of CONTINUOUS output power, you cannot pass mains harmonic current limits, and keep input electrolytic cap ripple current inside limits with a non PFC supply.
so you actually need PFC if you have say 250W+ of continuous output power.......not just to pass the PFC regs.
...just imagine how massively high your RMS mains input current is if you do not have PFC with an offline SMPS with 250W+ of continuous output power.
...and then your common mode choke etc needs to be rated for this.
So if you have high continuous power, then you've no choice but to use PFC...regardless of the regulations
so you actually need PFC if you have say 250W+ of continuous output power.......not just to pass the PFC regs.
...just imagine how massively high your RMS mains input current is if you do not have PFC with an offline SMPS with 250W+ of continuous output power.
...and then your common mode choke etc needs to be rated for this.
So if you have high continuous power, then you've no choice but to use PFC...regardless of the regulations
Sorry but isolation has nothing to do with PFC.
50Hz transformers into rectifier/cap banks do not have benign harmonics.......
Page 8 of the following gives the mains harmonic current limits......and 50Hz transformer based PSUs can very easily breach these.......making for an illegal power supply.
...though the audio fraternity seems to be able to breach these regulations....which for the rest of the world are absolutes, set in stone, ...sacred laws that to breach is to await severe peril including massive fines, and ultimatley being closed down, with no recourse to appeal
http://www.tdipower.com/PDF/white_paper/TW0062.pdf
50Hz transformers into rectifier/cap banks do not have benign harmonics.......
Page 8 of the following gives the mains harmonic current limits......and 50Hz transformer based PSUs can very easily breach these.......making for an illegal power supply.
...though the audio fraternity seems to be able to breach these regulations....which for the rest of the world are absolutes, set in stone, ...sacred laws that to breach is to await severe peril including massive fines, and ultimatley being closed down, with no recourse to appeal
http://www.tdipower.com/PDF/white_paper/TW0062.pdf
Yeah well sometimes life is not fair. The rest of the world? Doubt the amp would raise an eyebrow here.
Can we settle this disagreement?
Do domestic mains supply need to meet some standard of power factor demand?
I believe such is in fact the case in the EU, but probably not anywhere in North America, although it is considered good practice when possible. (The supply in this PC uses PF correction and I chose the PSU for that reason, and paid considerably extra for it.)
I don't think when the standards were written that they were thinking of niche markets like high end audio or the musical instrument industry. PFC while possible is not that practical with transformer based supplies, and high voltage, high current SMPS are not only very expensive but probably not too reliable. I am not sure that there are sufficiently fast rectifiers for SMPS use above a few hundred volts.. My current amplifiers have 1.1kV plate supplies as an example.
I believe I have seen gear from ARC and CJ I believe with the CE mark so there must be some way to get the approval despite the harmonic current issue..
Transformer based choke input high voltage supplies might meet the requirements but at a very considerable increase in cost. Filament supplies are probably less of an issue..
I suspect most boutique gear made locally for local markets flies under the radar even in the EU because the volumes do not justify enforcement, and there may also be some sort of political understanding in such cases, and I think there needs to be - unless you want to give up the hobby of designing and building your own gear as well.
Yet they don't, at least none I've seen, and certainly not the high power microwave oven SMPSU's, nor the high power audio PA amps I've seen.
As for you supposed 'ripple' limitations, I can only presume you're imagining it?.
Why do you think these 'regulations' you keep referring do are relevent?.
Not as far as I'm aware at all - the only domestic appliance that does so (that I'm aware of) is modern LCD/Plasma TV's. As is well known, PFC is used in industry, as the huge motors etc. cause severe PF problems, and companies are fined for power correction errors - but there's no such restriction on domestic users, and domestic meters don't even take account of it.
eem2am's point seems to be that as whatever regulations he's reading (from whatever country they apply to) don't specifically exclude guitar amplifiers - however, it's sounds like they don't specifically INCLUDE them either.
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