What kind of sound is he looking for?
Fender Blackface could be a good place to start. If he's in the market for a fat, softer sound, the 50's Fenders are great. I use a Fender Super (the first model) for jazzy playing, with 6V6GT power section.
http://www.webphix.com/schematic heaven/www.schematicheaven.com/fenderamps/super_5b4_LAYOUT.pdf
Fender Blackface could be a good place to start. If he's in the market for a fat, softer sound, the 50's Fenders are great. I use a Fender Super (the first model) for jazzy playing, with 6V6GT power section.
http://www.webphix.com/schematic heaven/www.schematicheaven.com/fenderamps/super_5b4_LAYOUT.pdf
I might have expressed myself a bit hastily. To clarify:
I meant that if he likes a clear, chimy clean tone, then the 1960's Blackfaces are a good place to start. This is to most the archetypal clean sound.
Then the older models, say the 5B4 Super I linked, give a bit fatter, softer and many would argue a bit more soulful tone.
I wouldn't turn my back on a Fender Tweed Champ for clean sounds, if he would be happy with just 5 watts. There's a lot of character there, with minimal parts count and cost. People mic their amps often now, anyways.
I meant that if he likes a clear, chimy clean tone, then the 1960's Blackfaces are a good place to start. This is to most the archetypal clean sound.
Then the older models, say the 5B4 Super I linked, give a bit fatter, softer and many would argue a bit more soulful tone.
I wouldn't turn my back on a Fender Tweed Champ for clean sounds, if he would be happy with just 5 watts. There's a lot of character there, with minimal parts count and cost. People mic their amps often now, anyways.
Being a jazz guitarist who is also a tube audio hobbyist, maybe I can help.
"Jazz guitar" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
If by "jazz guitar" you mean the 1950s sound of Barney Kessel or Jim Hall, then you mean a really old Gibson amp, like the GA-50 Gibson GA50 - Gibson Photo Album - Topix
schematic: http://www.6v6power.ru/inf/Amplifier/Gibson/Gibson GA-50.jpg
That's a beautiful, and unique sounding guitar amplifier.
If by "jazz guitar" you mean a Kenny Burrell or Wes Montgomery type of sound, then a blackface Fender is what they used in the mid to late 1960s.
George Benson used to play through a Fender Twin Reverb, into the 1970s. When I saw Kenny Burrell play at the Village Vanguard in about 1995, he was playing his Gibson Super 400 into a Fender Twin Reverb with twin JBL 12-inchers (HEAVY!).
In the late 1950s to early 1960s, those Blue Note records with Grant Green or Kenny Burrell on guitar were made with a tweed Deluxe amp. I find that amp to be very nice but too easy to distort when played at gigs. Something like a blackface or silverface Fender Vibrolux Reverb is just about perfect (35W output, 2X 10" speakers, weighs about 45 pounds). I used to have a Fender Deluxe Reverb (silverface, but that's pretty close to blackface IMO) which I adored (1-12" speaker, 20W output).
If by "jazz guitar" you mean a Pat Metheny sort of sound, then that's completely different. Pat uses a huge stack of electronics, which I really don't know much about. Back in the mid-1970s, he used a pair of Acoustic 1X12" solid-state amps with an analog delay to make a chorus effect. It was considered a bold new sound at the time
.
If by "jazz guitar" you mean John Scofield, then that's a more distorted sound, using a combination of Fender-style tube amp distortion, a bit of chorus/digital delay, and a distortion pedal (I think he still uses a ProCo RAT pedal).
If by "jazz guitar" you mean the more 1980s to 1990s Joe Pass or George Benson sound, then that was a Polytone Mini-Brute type of amplifier, which was a small solid-state amp with a sealed cabinet (usually a 12" speaker).
One of my own favorites is the old Ampeg Reverberocket (1960s, 7591A output tubes, about 30W, 1-12" spkr).
So you see, that's a complicated question there. I hope my post helps narrow things down for you.
-=|=-
"Jazz guitar" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
If by "jazz guitar" you mean the 1950s sound of Barney Kessel or Jim Hall, then you mean a really old Gibson amp, like the GA-50 Gibson GA50 - Gibson Photo Album - Topix
schematic: http://www.6v6power.ru/inf/Amplifier/Gibson/Gibson GA-50.jpg
That's a beautiful, and unique sounding guitar amplifier.
If by "jazz guitar" you mean a Kenny Burrell or Wes Montgomery type of sound, then a blackface Fender is what they used in the mid to late 1960s.
George Benson used to play through a Fender Twin Reverb, into the 1970s. When I saw Kenny Burrell play at the Village Vanguard in about 1995, he was playing his Gibson Super 400 into a Fender Twin Reverb with twin JBL 12-inchers (HEAVY!).
In the late 1950s to early 1960s, those Blue Note records with Grant Green or Kenny Burrell on guitar were made with a tweed Deluxe amp. I find that amp to be very nice but too easy to distort when played at gigs. Something like a blackface or silverface Fender Vibrolux Reverb is just about perfect (35W output, 2X 10" speakers, weighs about 45 pounds). I used to have a Fender Deluxe Reverb (silverface, but that's pretty close to blackface IMO) which I adored (1-12" speaker, 20W output).
If by "jazz guitar" you mean a Pat Metheny sort of sound, then that's completely different. Pat uses a huge stack of electronics, which I really don't know much about. Back in the mid-1970s, he used a pair of Acoustic 1X12" solid-state amps with an analog delay to make a chorus effect. It was considered a bold new sound at the time
. If by "jazz guitar" you mean John Scofield, then that's a more distorted sound, using a combination of Fender-style tube amp distortion, a bit of chorus/digital delay, and a distortion pedal (I think he still uses a ProCo RAT pedal).
If by "jazz guitar" you mean the more 1980s to 1990s Joe Pass or George Benson sound, then that was a Polytone Mini-Brute type of amplifier, which was a small solid-state amp with a sealed cabinet (usually a 12" speaker).
One of my own favorites is the old Ampeg Reverberocket (1960s, 7591A output tubes, about 30W, 1-12" spkr).
So you see, that's a complicated question there. I hope my post helps narrow things down for you.
-=|=-
I'd gues you'd be wanting to build a 50's or 60's vintage Fender amp. I think you'd want to build a Fender Princeton designs. Some have reverb and trem. See here for descriptions
The Amp Guide » Fender
Fender used 6V6 tubes in this kind of amp, Some larger amps had 6L6. The EL34 tubes are more associated with a Marshal amp and British rock bands but I think the sound has more to do with the size of the caps used in the tone stack and for preamp cathode bypass, the amount of feedback All these "details" are I think more important then the brand of tube but to swap a tube type like an EL34 into a Fender design you's have to understand a lot about amp design and how component value effect the tone. If you don't understand this you shown follow the Fender schematic EXACTLY.
Then you have to decide if you want to build the reverb and/trem into the amp or if a pendel wil be used for this. I think nothing beats the spring reverb and tube trem sond. But this depends on the player and his taste, no on mine or yours
How much do you save by trying to use the tubes you have? the price of a pair of 6V6 tubes is just $30. a small part of the price of an amp. The two transformers, chassis and caps together cost 5 times more than a pair of 6V6 tubes. If you are building a copy of a Fender amp you really need to either use the same tubes or understand exactly how to design an amp so it sounds the way you'd like it to.
Save the EL34 tubes for some guy who's in a Led Zeppelin cover band and build a Fender style amp for the jazz player. Also it is actually cheaper to buy new 6V6 tubes because the transformers required for the larger EL34 cost more than the transformers you put into a 6V6 powered Prinston. The savings in transformer cost will pay for the new tubes The 12AX7 and 12AU7 will go into any Fender or Marshal type amp
BTW, I totally agree with
A little Champ with a good speaker can sound ridiculously nice. Even silverface Champs sound great.
FWIW, I never liked Princeton amps. But I think that was because of the tiny cabinet and 10" speaker. I'll bet a Princeton driving a 12" in a Deluxe Reverb cabinet would sound really nice. My fave was the Deluxe Reverb, though -- I think because of its high gain and so very "rich" sound (always on the brink of distortion, though). Maybe the Deluxe Reverb had more 2nd harmonic distortion in its output than Princeton or the bigger amps. I dunno...
A little Champ with a good speaker can sound ridiculously nice. Even silverface Champs sound great.
FWIW, I never liked Princeton amps. But I think that was because of the tiny cabinet and 10" speaker. I'll bet a Princeton driving a 12" in a Deluxe Reverb cabinet would sound really nice. My fave was the Deluxe Reverb, though -- I think because of its high gain and so very "rich" sound (always on the brink of distortion, though). Maybe the Deluxe Reverb had more 2nd harmonic distortion in its output than Princeton or the bigger amps. I dunno...
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Just for fun,
You could look at the trainwreck amps. A few interestig designs.
Link:
pictures of trainwreck amps - Google Search
I agree with the ideas of Fender Tweed amps!
Lots of schematics here:
http://www.drtube.com/guitamp.htm#MesaBoogie
If you build with high adjustable fixed bias you could try different output tubes and compare the tone.
I must admit I also like the Mesa Boogie amps.
Link:
pictures mesa boogie triple rectifier - Google Search
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.premierguitar.com/issue/features/images/200709_mesaboogie_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Sep/Mesa_Boogie_Born_to_Boogie.aspx&usg=__ViMWJNzm2J_i5P07GV9v5ZEUYIs=&h=285&w=250&sz=32&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=wLy3VvzyBVePTM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=118&ei=WyHxTYy5IcK28QOfwfDOAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bmesa%2Bboogie%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D628%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1033&vpy=118&dur=843&hovh=228&hovw=200&tx=118&ty=120&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0&biw=1259&bih=628
Boogie schematics:
http://tubefreak.com/cal50pow.gif
http://tubefreak.com/cal50pre.gif
Ahhh the smell of old amps with warm air drifting out of the vents...hopefully with no smoke effects..LOL
Regards
M. Gregg
You could look at the trainwreck amps. A few interestig designs.
Link:
pictures of trainwreck amps - Google Search
I agree with the ideas of Fender Tweed amps!
Lots of schematics here:
http://www.drtube.com/guitamp.htm#MesaBoogie
If you build with high adjustable fixed bias you could try different output tubes and compare the tone.
I must admit I also like the Mesa Boogie amps.
Link:
pictures mesa boogie triple rectifier - Google Search
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.premierguitar.com/issue/features/images/200709_mesaboogie_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Sep/Mesa_Boogie_Born_to_Boogie.aspx&usg=__ViMWJNzm2J_i5P07GV9v5ZEUYIs=&h=285&w=250&sz=32&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=wLy3VvzyBVePTM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=118&ei=WyHxTYy5IcK28QOfwfDOAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bmesa%2Bboogie%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D628%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1033&vpy=118&dur=843&hovh=228&hovw=200&tx=118&ty=120&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:0&biw=1259&bih=628
Boogie schematics:
http://tubefreak.com/cal50pow.gif
http://tubefreak.com/cal50pre.gif
Ahhh the smell of old amps with warm air drifting out of the vents...hopefully with no smoke effects..LOL
Regards
M. Gregg
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OK I just like the sound works for me..LOL
Can't resist these clips just click play on each one:
Glen Kuykendall | Free Music, Tour Dates, Photos, Videos
Linked from TW site.
Regards
M. Gregg
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Hey Merlin!
I've got a similar situation, though on the rock guitar side. Some parts around and trying to figure out which schematic/amp to start with to create something as a gift for a friend.
I've heard amps sound different with different guitars. I've swapped out speakers and heard a wide range of variation in the process as well. I think that it would be helpful to know the kind(s) of guitar(s) that your friend would be using, a goal sound that he might be going for (an example by another player for instance), and what kinds of speakers you have available for this build, or if you are considering just a head.
The first amp name that jumped into my mind when I read your post title was Polytone. I've got a friend in St. Louis that could sell you one of their amps by playing through it. Another jazz player I know wanted a Bogner for some time, but is now looking at Princeton's.
I've got a similar situation, though on the rock guitar side. Some parts around and trying to figure out which schematic/amp to start with to create something as a gift for a friend.
I've heard amps sound different with different guitars. I've swapped out speakers and heard a wide range of variation in the process as well. I think that it would be helpful to know the kind(s) of guitar(s) that your friend would be using, a goal sound that he might be going for (an example by another player for instance), and what kinds of speakers you have available for this build, or if you are considering just a head.
The first amp name that jumped into my mind when I read your post title was Polytone. I've got a friend in St. Louis that could sell you one of their amps by playing through it. Another jazz player I know wanted a Bogner for some time, but is now looking at Princeton's.
I agree with that. All "academic" jazz guitar players I've seen in small clubs, play with very clean solidstate amps, some with bass reflex speakers as well! Makes elude me, but they look nothing like "ordinary" guitar amps.
To much Fender talk.
One should take a good look at the Gibsons with pentode input tubes. I play a 1955 GA-15 (6SC7) with a Weber 12" together with a one year older P-90 equipped thinline. Works for me. Another great amp is GA-40 Les Paul/II(5879). Both with pp 6V6.
Both of these amps have a mellow softer tone with very much of the guitars own character going through.
If you don´t have the pentodes at hand a cascode-connected E88CC at low current will do. We earlier used EF86 in our amps but have now gone over to E88CC both for reliability and sound.
.One should take a good look at the Gibsons with pentode input tubes. I play a 1955 GA-15 (6SC7) with a Weber 12" together with a one year older P-90 equipped thinline. Works for me. Another great amp is GA-40 Les Paul/II(5879). Both with pp 6V6.
Both of these amps have a mellow softer tone with very much of the guitars own character going through.
If you don´t have the pentodes at hand a cascode-connected E88CC at low current will do. We earlier used EF86 in our amps but have now gone over to E88CC both for reliability and sound.
![30H_endstufe[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/211/211200-47e0b47675df77f7746c21f0e9fe1c54.jpg)
To much Fender talk
One should take a good look at the Gibsons with pentode input tubes. I play a 1955 GA-15 (6SC7) with a Weber 12" together with a one year older P-90 equipped thinline. Works for me. Another great amp is GA-40 Les Paul/II(5879). Both with pp 6V6.
Both of these amps have a mellow softer tone with very much of the guitars own character going through.
If you don´t have the pentodes at hand a cascode-connected E88CC at low current will do. We earlier used EF86 in our amps but have now gone over to E88CC both for reliability and sound.
Could you post schematic cascode-connected E88CC at low current?
Yes!
Nothing can beat class A tube power amp for jazz guitar.
For rock I am going to try 6J6 in phase splitter and 6BA6 p-p in class AB.
For me, jazz guitar does not mean the amp should be a "jazz" amp. If you need loud clean potential that's a valid concern but it's not limited to jazz playing. I find the tone coming from some jazz players, using “jazz amps,” to be pretty lame and they would sound much better if they were using a "normal" guitar amp instead IMHO.
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