Guitar and Bass, tuning tuning tuning

[tinitus]

I've been adjusting the bridge so the sliders move away from the neck.
Chris

measure free string length(average), from upper saddle to middle of bridge
from saddle to 12th fret should measure half of that

or backwards
measure from saddle to 12th fret
multiply by x2
and you have your average scale lenth
which is free string length from saddle to mid bridge
roughly

if you are close, then maybe ok
if too far from that, then your adjustment have wandered off

also adjust bridge string height
if possible, adjust so that each string tension 'feels' the same, when playing

as said by Charles in post 38, also consider your playing style
by that is meant, how much you stretch the string with your fingers
could be different for each string, fret position etc

personally I play rather softly, without stretching the strings too much

hey Charles, I know what you are saying
I only try to take one step at a time
for a start it needs to be simplified

 

[phase_accurate]

Chris

Are your octaves too low or too high ? If the octaves are too low the you'd have to move the saddles into the direction of the neck, if they are too high - you'd have to move them away from the neck.

And important: Before checking if your adjustment is fine for the 12th fret you'd have to tune the open string again.

Another question how high is your action at the end of the fretboard (i.e. 20th or 24th fret, depending on instrument) ?

Regards

Charles

 

[tinitus]

Chris

If the octaves are too low the you'd have to move the saddles into the direction of the neck, if they are too high - you'd have to move them away from the neck.

yup, but only until about 1/4 of the next lower tone, then its reversed again, and ´rises', until you reach 1/2 tone lower
and then the whole instrument is messed up
you have to start from neutral, which is where 12th fret measure exactly half of total free swinging string
I would suggest to try and stay very close to that position

note that when you try move the bridge 'forward', you may have to push on the screw, with tip of the screw driver
and then, tighten the screw just a little
I find this very important
you may notice that this kind of vintage bridge is bit sloppy
moving back and forth, sideways, and rubbing against each other
I'm surpriced to find that it even works, but it does, apparently
simple effective clever design

 

[chris661]

Hi guys,

The octaves are still a little too high. I'll try moving the ones that'll still go a bit further. It's not far off now, so I'm happy to call it good if it's not working out

Chris

Edit - the octaves are now pretty much perfect, but the notes either side are slightly out. The joys of a cheap bass... Think I'll call it good, the tuner I'm using says they're very close, so that'll be good enough for the forseeable future. Thanks everyone

 

[tinitus]

hey Chris

I dont know your tuner
but the one I bought is quite tricky, with multiple settings possible
just to set the tuner straight is a job of its own
a simple thing, and still quite tricky
at least it appears so, to a lesser experienced like myself

 

[chris661]

This one is just a straightforward chromatic tuner, set to A440.

I bought a Boss ME-20 for guitar use some time ago, and was pleased to notice the tuner works for bass guitar.

 

[phase_accurate]

The intonation setup is only a compromise. I.e. it is at best exact in two places:The open string and the 2nd position that was used as reference for the setup.

Regards

Charles

 

[tinitus]

at best exact in two places:The open string and .......

Charles

open string is the one I give the least attention, like second to none

 

[nigelwright7557]

I found the best way to tune is to tune down a bit then tune up to the note using a guitar tuner. I have a Zoom 707 effects pedal with built in tuner.
Then bend the string a bit and retune until it stops detuning.
I rarley have to tune my guitar unless the temperature changes a bit then it needs retuning.

 

[phase_accurate]

open string is the one I give the least attention, like second to none

Yo are not using natural harmonics when playing, do you ? ;-)

Regards

Charles

 

[tinitus]

Yo are not using natural harmonics when playing, do you ? ;-)

hey, I didnt say that open string doesnt matter
ofcourse open string matters, a lot
harmonics, like you imply

my point is that when the rest is tip top, open string is perfect too
meaning, tuning open string a such have very low priority
I focus on upper notes
and when they are all ok, open string is fine too

 

[chris661]

I found the best way to tune is to tune down a bit then tune up to the note using a guitar tuner. I have a Zoom 707 effects pedal with built in tuner.
Then bend the string a bit and retune until it stops detuning.
I rarley have to tune my guitar unless the temperature changes a bit then it needs retuning.

Sounds similar to the method I use, 'cept I've got a Boss ME-20 (which I don't seem to use much these days - having learnt to get my guitar pretty much in tune with only my ears (getting the low E in tune for the rest of them is something I'm still working on), and my amp having sufficient effects (distortion), I've no real need for a big multi-fx.

On a slightly off-topic note (Bb), how does everyone break in their strings?

I hook up my tuner, tune all the strings slightly sharp, then pull them (one at a time) away from the fretboard (maybe an inch, 25.4mm for those of you using metric) a couple of times, then re-tune it. Repeat until the string stops losing it's tune after a couple of pulls. Only had a couple of snaps with this method.

Chris

 

[tinitus]

and then it happened

for some reason my bass went wacko, out of tune

tried to tune in the regular way
and it only got worse
it was completely unplayable

'ended' up messing with the bridge
and began to tune 'it' backwards, away from neck
followed by regular tuning, and tuning
ob boy, it only got worse and worse
frustration

then I took a breath, and calmed down
I thought, hey it was ok yesterday

and I remembered my own suggestion about detuning
and so I did, methodically
detune on the tuners
and the tune up using the bridge
rejected temptation to tune up with tuners
but instead using bridge adjustment to get string pitch up, and so the intonation
only very modest tuning after that
and it plays nicely again

if you dont have any problems, the just ignore this
but if you do, I would strongly suggest to try it
detune
and bring it up by tuning the bridge forward

oh, btw, for the test, I play to all sorts of different pop music, on the radio
when its in tune with most of it, then its ok
well, my life depends on it, because that is how I practice

 

[tinitus]

hey
getiing tired of black fingers when I play bass
and I'm paranoid about stuff like nickel etc

is this common, with black fingers
or an indication I better change the strings


btw, my bridge tuning mania haven't stopped yet
and can be quite annoying

 

[chris661]

The strings on my cheap bass were old. Very old. I didn't get blackened fingers, though. I'd definitely suggest replacing them.

These days I'm playing my fretless bass (converted my cheap bass using a chisel ) with flatwound strings, which are, IMO, a joy to play.

Perfect intonation every time, with some practice.

Chris