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Old 30th May 2008, 02:15 PM   #1
JWK is offline JWK  United States
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Default Designing speakers for guitar modeling amp

Hey all, I've been puzzling on this one for awhile and I thought I'd throw it out here and see what people think.

There's a new guitar modeling amp that a lot of people in the music world are going ga ga over. I'm thinking of getting one and trying it out. I would want to try to make my own speaker cabs for this.

Guitar speakers don't have anything over 6k Hz. In fact, everything drops off very sharply over 5k. By 6k, nothing, nada. The guitar itself has fundamental notes topping out around 1.3 Hz. So I guess ideally you would want a speaker flat from about 80 Hz to 1300 Hz and then cross over to a speaker to cover the overtones to 6K. That probably doesn't exist and I think I remember reading this is a problem with all crossover situations as that is the human voice range, more or less. I would think it would sound really funny for the speakers to cross over as you play up the neck and hit that spot. A lot of people are using PA cabs that cross over in that range and it doesn't seem to bother them. Don't know, never heard it myself.

Anyway, tweeters not needed! So how would you approach making cabs for this scenario? Just looking for thoughts and ideas. I would be using a stereo tube amp to drive the cabs.

Thanks for any ideas/thoughts/suggestions, etc.

John
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Old 30th May 2008, 04:26 PM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Just build some guitar cabinets and turn off the cabinet modelling for live.

Stereo tube amplfier ? turn off the power amplifier modelling as well.
Or more sensibly leave it on and use a stereo tranny power amplifier.

If it models miked up cabinets for recording then pretty much all you
need is a standard recording monitoring situation, not special speakers.

/sreten.
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Old 30th May 2008, 04:28 PM   #3
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Not sure what you are driving at, as commercial modelling amp guitar combos don't do anything so special or exotic. A lot of them used the Eminence Modelling 12 before it was discontinued. As you can from this comparison chart it had a smoother FR than other guitar drivers:

http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/emisens.html
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Old 31st May 2008, 08:17 AM   #4
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Keep in mind that a lot of guitar speakers are driven from a hgih impedance amp, so that speaker's impedance curve also has its impact.
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Old 31st May 2008, 12:26 PM   #5
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Cabinet material is important for tone.
Don`t use MDF, it sounds lifeless and dull.
Plywood is good. Solid wood is best but more fragile and likely to spilt.
You could make it with front and back out of plywood, and top sides and bottom solid wood. Less likely to split than all solid wood.
Larger boxes generally sounds better than smaller ones, for the same driver. A larger box sounds larger and more open and free.

Once upon a time.... I had a compression driver on top of my guitar speakers. I run the guitar speakers full range, the compression driver added some sparkle on top. It sounded quite good actually. Very easy to make it sound dreadful when you mic it through a PA though...


Peter
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Old 31st May 2008, 03:54 PM   #6
JWK is offline JWK  United States
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I don't want a "guitar cab". That's not the way I want to use the modelling amp. I want the sims. I need a flat response speaker cab that only needs to go up to 6k Hz. It's like making a HiFi speaker cab, only you don't need the high end. We're reproducing sound here, not generating it. The modelling amp is doing that.
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Old 2nd June 2008, 12:10 PM   #7
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by JWK
I don't want a "guitar cab". That's not the way I want to use the modelling amp. I want the sims. I need a flat response speaker cab that only needs to go up to 6kHz. It's like making a HiFi speaker cab, only you don't need the high end. We're reproducing sound here,
not generating it. The modelling amp is doing that.
Hi,

So whether the speaker has or does not have anything above 6Khz
should not matter, if the modelling amplifer models the response of
the speaker cabinets, which it should for DI "miked" recording.

A good pair of PA speakers is the obvious choice .....
FWIW for the better bass/mid + horn PA units the horn is more
of a mid/treble unit than treble and output falls off around 12Khz
which is only 1 octave above 6Khz - noting many guitar speakers
have a big peak around 6Khz, so there is output above 6Khz.

/sreten.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 03:48 PM   #8
JWK is offline JWK  United States
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Yes, a pair of PA speakers is what most are using, but again the crossover fall within the guitar's upper range. In a small room, this is noticable. I didn't mention that I'm trying to make this for home use. Sorry.

I was unaware of guitar speakers that have peaks around 6kHz. I'll check that out. In any case, it's unimportant. You're right that it doesn't matter if there is extended range. However, if you're building something, it might make it easier if you don't have to get up there, no?

I'm wondering if some sort of full range speaker set up might be the answer for the living room.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 03:58 PM   #9
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Guitar speakers tend to have big peaks anywhere from
1kHz up to 6Khz though most I think are around 3KHz.

/sreten.
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