I have recently got Sennheiser HD 650s. I like them a lot, but is there a hint of "politeness" about the sound? Have heard that some are unconvinced by the stock cable, which is way too long for my desk top set up anyway. So I decided to go very different on the cable to see if I could hear any difference.
Connectors off EBay for £3/pair. 2 metres Cat6 solid core for £3. Stereo 1/4 inch jack. £2. Really cheap.
Strip off outer sheath from 4 feet. Select 2 twisted pairs. I liked green and brown. Being solid core it doesn't untwist, and the 2 pairs can be twisted together from the Y. No need for outer sheath. Really easy.
Really not beautiful.
I thought that I would need to go into a Zen state to hear some tiny difference. But no, it was clearly different. A bit like turning the brightness and contrast up slightly on a tele. Different does not equal better, but I really prefer it. The "politeness" has been replaced with vibrancy, to overstate the change. I will not be using the stock cable again.
I impatiently tried Cat5e before I could get hold of the Cat 6. Easier to work with and actually I could not detect any difference when I replaced it with the Cat6. Of course solid core is very impractical for headphones, but in a permanent desk top set up it is workable.
I do not believe that cable can improve the sound, but I now feel that the stock cable does detract a bit from the potential.
Connectors off EBay for £3/pair. 2 metres Cat6 solid core for £3. Stereo 1/4 inch jack. £2. Really cheap.
Strip off outer sheath from 4 feet. Select 2 twisted pairs. I liked green and brown. Being solid core it doesn't untwist, and the 2 pairs can be twisted together from the Y. No need for outer sheath. Really easy.
Really not beautiful.
I thought that I would need to go into a Zen state to hear some tiny difference. But no, it was clearly different. A bit like turning the brightness and contrast up slightly on a tele. Different does not equal better, but I really prefer it. The "politeness" has been replaced with vibrancy, to overstate the change. I will not be using the stock cable again.
I impatiently tried Cat5e before I could get hold of the Cat 6. Easier to work with and actually I could not detect any difference when I replaced it with the Cat6. Of course solid core is very impractical for headphones, but in a permanent desk top set up it is workable.
I do not believe that cable can improve the sound, but I now feel that the stock cable does detract a bit from the potential.
The Senn cable uses enameled wiring. I wonder if this is ideal. Perhaps someone with more experience could comment. My thinking is that you could get crosstalk with enameled wiring, especially in longer lengths.
Grado uses very nice cabling, but it is very thick. I particularly like the insulation used on the individual wires inside the cable. It is soft and supple and strips easily. I wish I could find wire like that for sale.
Grado uses very nice cabling, but it is very thick. I particularly like the insulation used on the individual wires inside the cable. It is soft and supple and strips easily. I wish I could find wire like that for sale.
hpeter,
you can but the sound will be crap. I spent 4 years from 2010 on making inter/connects - cheap conductor material does'nt work - crap in, crap out. TEFLON is not the best dialectric but another fluorocarbon is - FEP very clear sound compared to TEFLON which sounds a bit muddied.
By sheer chance I was given a name - Heavyside. His work on electrical conduction has never been challenged scientifically but is totally ignored in the audio world - electricity travels not only through a conductor but around it as well, which complements - air is the best dialectric.
I ended up using a silver plated high conductivity OFC 26AWG solid core, use a very thin silver micron coating or you will be listening to a silver cable. This type of conductor will yield a very neutral sound.
I also used a high purity silver 26AWG solid core, this yields a slightly warm sound that most prefer.
use FEP tubing that is oversized aka an 'air dialectric'. This FEP tubing can be bought in the UK and in the USA.
I tried to 'break' this 26AWG wire - and could'nt. Do not twist the conductors use them straight inside a soft sheathing. I used to use Audio Techflex but it isn't made anymore, the same kind of thing can be bought from Hong Kong/China. Never use any kind of hard sheathing, it will induce unwanted microphonics.
With the i/connects I ended up using 4 x conductors for signal and return. As it happens I'm going to be ordering some more FEP tubing to make a cable for my 650s, not sure if I will use 4 x maybe 2 x. I bought new connectors from China the ones from Cardas were crap and would melt if a soldering iron was nearby. There is also a metal version available, not sure I want this near the signal wires.
FEP tubing - Adtech Engineering - STW16 nominal ID 1.43mm x wall 0.25mm - this for 26AWG - makes for very flexible cable.
Using the same principles I'm going to make some speaker cable, if I can find good quality 12/14 AWG bare copper wire which I will swab with Pro-Gold to prevent oxidisation.
you can but the sound will be crap. I spent 4 years from 2010 on making inter/connects - cheap conductor material does'nt work - crap in, crap out. TEFLON is not the best dialectric but another fluorocarbon is - FEP very clear sound compared to TEFLON which sounds a bit muddied.
By sheer chance I was given a name - Heavyside. His work on electrical conduction has never been challenged scientifically but is totally ignored in the audio world - electricity travels not only through a conductor but around it as well, which complements - air is the best dialectric.
I ended up using a silver plated high conductivity OFC 26AWG solid core, use a very thin silver micron coating or you will be listening to a silver cable. This type of conductor will yield a very neutral sound.
I also used a high purity silver 26AWG solid core, this yields a slightly warm sound that most prefer.
use FEP tubing that is oversized aka an 'air dialectric'. This FEP tubing can be bought in the UK and in the USA.
I tried to 'break' this 26AWG wire - and could'nt. Do not twist the conductors use them straight inside a soft sheathing. I used to use Audio Techflex but it isn't made anymore, the same kind of thing can be bought from Hong Kong/China. Never use any kind of hard sheathing, it will induce unwanted microphonics.
With the i/connects I ended up using 4 x conductors for signal and return. As it happens I'm going to be ordering some more FEP tubing to make a cable for my 650s, not sure if I will use 4 x maybe 2 x. I bought new connectors from China the ones from Cardas were crap and would melt if a soldering iron was nearby. There is also a metal version available, not sure I want this near the signal wires.
FEP tubing - Adtech Engineering - STW16 nominal ID 1.43mm x wall 0.25mm - this for 26AWG - makes for very flexible cable.
Using the same principles I'm going to make some speaker cable, if I can find good quality 12/14 AWG bare copper wire which I will swab with Pro-Gold to prevent oxidisation.
Cat 6 cable can be sourced that has a stranded core construction (it will usually be advertised as being for patch cable construction) and is much more flexible and very nice for this use.
Some XLR microphone cables are very flexible, and much nicer quality than the snake oil materials often sold for audio use. Chop the ends off and put the connector you need (or rewire the 'phones for balanced/dual mono, if you have the gear to drive it, but that's another story) and you're done
Far more likely to be the headphone than the cable, don't you think?
I doubt you can actually hear a cable difference. Do a double blind, volume matched AB test and see if you can pick it. If you know which cable you're listening to the test is invalid because your brain lies to you and prefers the favourite it thinks should sound better. Or whichever one is slightly louder will sound more detailed and clear to you.
The HD650 is known for having generous midbass and recessed treble. The HD600 has a bit less bass and a bit more top end, so it may be closer to what you're after.
I doubt you can actually hear a cable difference. Do a double blind, volume matched AB test and see if you can pick it. If you know which cable you're listening to the test is invalid because your brain lies to you and prefers the favourite it thinks should sound better. Or whichever one is slightly louder will sound more detailed and clear to you.
The HD650 is known for having generous midbass and recessed treble. The HD600 has a bit less bass and a bit more top end, so it may be closer to what you're after.
A lot of us have been in this game long enough to know about hoping for, or expecting to hear "improvements" with our latest wheeze. When I hear what I don't expect (in this case the level of change for me) I get more interested. My cheats double blind is to get my wife (who is not into hifi at all) to listen and tell me if she can hear any difference, and if so what. Obviously she does not know which is which. Sometimes she disappoints me.
Controversially, I wonder if there are those who measure first, and can detect no measurable difference, who then "know" that they can hear no difference.
Controversially, I wonder if there are those who measure first, and can detect no measurable difference, who then "know" that they can hear no difference.
Pretty much my experience too to be honest. I joined head-fi in 2002 and have heard quite a few amps, headphones, dac,... I built a tons of headphones amps too. I think I got better at hearing differences between headphones over the years. But cables ? I lost all my illusions over the years.
My only claim is that I feel that there is something slightly wrong with the stock HD650 cable, which even cheap home made cables can show up.
I do not want this thread to end up as; I know I can hear a difference, and you know I can't.
Black Stuart Quote: I bought new connectors from China the ones from Cardas were crap and would melt if a soldering iron was nearby.
I also bought those connectors from China, but even with these I had difficulty with melting when soldering. I suspect my soldering iron is too cheap and old, but the melting point of the solder does not seem to be much lower than the melting point of the plastic. Any tips as to how to solder these plugs would be gratefully received.
I also bought those connectors from China, but even with these I had difficulty with melting when soldering. I suspect my soldering iron is too cheap and old, but the melting point of the solder does not seem to be much lower than the melting point of the plastic. Any tips as to how to solder these plugs would be gratefully received.
midrange,
I've yet to order more of the FEP tubing, so can't proceed yet. Can't comment as practice is always the basis for any statement I make. If they fail like the Cardas ones, I shall try the metal plugs that are available. Have you tried using rosin flux to make the s/joint ASAP?
Your statement about the 'measuring merchants' is great LOL.
As I get the Japanese TV channel - NHK world as part of my TV/I/net/phone package here in France I always make a point of checking out their technology programmes, never a waste of time. Saw a brilliant piece at a high-tec show in Tokyo - a company has developed a machine that 'bonds' fibre optic wires, fascinating.
RCA/XLR/h/phone jacks are so antiquated, so badly designed - there must be better ways to connect/send delicate musical signals from one piece of equipment to another, I especially dislike the great big lump of metal that is the h/phone jack - Particle physics - atomic fields - doesn't seem right.
Totally agree about the stock cables for the 650s - another example of downright disdain for Heavyside's seminal work on conduction.
I've yet to order more of the FEP tubing, so can't proceed yet. Can't comment as practice is always the basis for any statement I make. If they fail like the Cardas ones, I shall try the metal plugs that are available. Have you tried using rosin flux to make the s/joint ASAP?
Your statement about the 'measuring merchants' is great LOL.
As I get the Japanese TV channel - NHK world as part of my TV/I/net/phone package here in France I always make a point of checking out their technology programmes, never a waste of time. Saw a brilliant piece at a high-tec show in Tokyo - a company has developed a machine that 'bonds' fibre optic wires, fascinating.
RCA/XLR/h/phone jacks are so antiquated, so badly designed - there must be better ways to connect/send delicate musical signals from one piece of equipment to another, I especially dislike the great big lump of metal that is the h/phone jack - Particle physics - atomic fields - doesn't seem right.
Totally agree about the stock cables for the 650s - another example of downright disdain for Heavyside's seminal work on conduction.
I have an experience from my younger years that conflates with reason and logic - a 20 year old Sansui integrated amp sounded WAY better than an entry level NAD and almost on par with a ME pre and amp combo worth a few thousand bucks. The Sansui was nothing special (especially given the age, and in original condition) but it sounded so much more musical than the NAD it was a big surprise.
It was not a scientific test - no volume matching or anything sensible like that just mixing and matching systems with a friend. But a totally unexpected result we both agreed on... go figure. It's too hand-wavey to give it much legitimacy though.
Sansui were full of surprises. I knew a couple of Sansui owners over the years and there were lots of similar stories. The common denominator being; "my precious" was better (on par, or almost there) than this-or-that megabuck super-duper supersystem... (but not everyone cared to really take such comparisons).
For what I know the "originals" always sounded better. Any repair seemed to take off some of their mojo.
For what I know the "originals" always sounded better. Any repair seemed to take off some of their mojo.
I've recabled my takstar ts-671 headphones 2 years ago using CAT-5 solid wire and i can recommend it, cheap and reliable, a little stiff but these HP are for home use only.
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