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Old 23rd April 2014, 04:01 AM   #1
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Question 2 wires for Return Terminal and 1 wire for (+) Terminal in EXPENSIVE Headphone cable

I have just disassembled a VERY EXPENSIVE $400 ZuMobius HD650 Headphones cable,

and it has TWO Wires running for Return Terminal in EACH Channel and 1 wire for (+) Terminal, so you get 3 Wires for each channel,

But this is where it gets INTERESTING.......

These 6 wires Converge into a Joint Point and then SEVEN(7) Wires Emerge out of it !!!....

Does ANY of this make Sense to Anyone here ??

I just want to know if using a heavier gage or 2 wires for Return makes ANY improvement in an insane Headphone cable or were they just smoking too many Datura seeds ?

BTW, I'd like to SHARE my On-Going RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT Cable for HD650 Findings, :

All wires that I use are Pure Oxygen free copper on the inside and silver plated on the outside, Teflon insulation

I use a Twisted pair of 26" gage (7 strands in each) first for a single Headphone channel, - I found that it sounds too flat, little mids and no bass

Then I tried a pair of 20" Solid Core wires for a single channel, - this sounded like it lost a lot of detail in the highs and the soundstage got moved back somewhere, far back, and everything sounded way too mellow, not enough detail, highs not as pronounced, bass is not dynamic enough

Best combination so far was using a Twisted pair cable 24'AWG that is Shielded and grounded from one side at the source, It produced Everything so very perfect and beautiful and finally beat the long copper stock cable that HD650 came with, making a clear difference
Much more detail, Tighter bass and clearer mids, the highs are unbelivably precise, what a pleasure to listen to !!!

Single core cable measured 0.3-0.4 Ohm per strand, 24'AWG measures about 0.8ohm per strand, that is included both connectors on each end

I think I found the most Optimal solution so far, Now both channels are properly BALANCED, and Each Channels is separated from each other with a braided SHIELD, shield also consists of Pure Oxygen free Copper plated with Silver

Enjoy

Last edited by Hallucinogen; 23rd April 2014 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 04:11 AM   #2
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for start my headphones cost 50 bucks ... and they are chinease rippof of akg-s ....bla bla ..... why would you give away 400 bucks for headphone cable... return it to seller if you can and make your own if you want higher gauge than original... maybe you post picture of that joints and stuff then at least someone can try to understand whats all about that cable... and one more thing ... better spend 20 bucks on good volume pot for headphone amp than 2 million on headphone cable but thats just my logic maybe i am badly wrong...
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Old 23rd April 2014, 04:13 AM   #3
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That cable has been gotten many many years ago by a friend of mine who decided to give it to me because one channel got damaged

Let's try to Answer my question, ---> I just want to know if using a heavier gage or 2 wires for Return makes ANY improvement in an insane Headphone cable ?

btw, Better spend $300 on a pair of used high-end headphones that came with a good stock cable, and screw Headphone amps, i never used one and never will in my life, Signal right from the SOURCE is the best signal there is !

HD650 btw have a supremely better sound signature than HD700 or HD800 crappy headphones, and are considered to be easily one of the best headphones Ever made, they also beat the silly T1 and LCD2 anytime

Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonitonitoni View Post
for start my headphones cost 50 bucks ... and they are chinease rippof of akg-s ....bla bla ..... why would you give away 400 bucks for headphone cable... return it to seller if you can and make your own if you want higher gauge than original... maybe you post picture of that joints and stuff then at least someone can try to understand whats all about that cable... and one more thing ... better spend 20 bucks on good volume pot for headphone amp than 2 million on headphone cable but thats just my logic maybe i am badly wrong...

Last edited by Hallucinogen; 23rd April 2014 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 04:15 PM   #4
Fsatsil is offline Fsatsil  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucinogen View Post
and screw Headphone amps, i never used one and never will in my life, Signal right from the SOURCE is the best signal there is !
What source are you using that can drive a pair of HD650s without an amp?
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Old 23rd April 2014, 04:26 PM   #5
Fsatsil is offline Fsatsil  United States
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Quote:
Let's try to Answer my question, ---> I just want to know if using a heavier gage or 2 wires for Return makes ANY improvement in an insane Headphone cable ?
As long as a single wire is capable of carrying the small amount of current needed for the headphones then it shouldn't make any difference if you use one or two or even three individual wires.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 04:44 PM   #6
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I smell a troll. Shows us pictures of this "VERY EXPENSIVE" cable so we can see what you are talking about?

And as above, please tell us what source can drive a pair of 300ohm HD650s without an amp?
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Old 23rd April 2014, 06:53 PM   #7
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ANY DAC Can drive HD650 without an amp with a standard 1.5-2mV output, even a built-in internal SoundBlaster and Asus Xonar internal could drive it just perfectly fine, it sounds like you never even had this model and talk solely based on numbers in technical specifications

Even my Creative Zen MP3 player can drive it and plays loud enough !

I'm guessing here you aren't going for those ear-bleeding high volumes which make no sense whatsoever... unless you want to go deaf in a few years

And cmon, - "Troll" ? Did you really just say that... I thought we are past the kindergarten stage here,

It's called ZuMobius cable for HD650 as I mentioned, or did you not ever hear about this one either ?
Well, here is how it looks like, it uses pure silver wires too
- Click the image to open in full size.

http://www.zuaudio.com/cables/mobius-senn-600650

It would be really nice if you could not make any useless posts unless you have any actual knowledge to answer my technical question...

I'm thinking that doubling the wire for the Return terminal could have something to do with opening up more bandwidth for the signal to return so it doesn't reside in the driver(similarly to damping factor for speakers), while a thinner cable for (+) increases the soundstage in the upper highs due to lower resistance, and overall lower capacitance as opposed to using 2 strands for return and 2 strands for (+)

I hope they did some actual R&D on this, since for now we can only theorize


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcandmar View Post
I smell a troll. Shows us pictures of this "VERY EXPENSIVE" cable so we can see what you are talking about?

And as above, please tell us what source can drive a pair of 300ohm HD650s without an amp?

Last edited by Hallucinogen; 23rd April 2014 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 23rd April 2014, 11:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucinogen View Post
ANY DAC Can drive HD650 without an amp with a standard 1.5-2mV output
That means you can (voltage-wise) drive your HD650's directly from a microphone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucinogen View Post
I'm thinking that doubling the wire for the Return terminal could have something to do with opening up more bandwidth for the signal to return so it doesn't reside in the driver(similarly to damping factor for speakers), while a thinner cable for (+) increases the soundstage in the upper highs due to lower resistance, and overall lower capacitance as opposed to using 2 strands for return and 2 strands for (+)
I get your point about the return path and lower resistance on it sure won't do any harm, but there really isn't any more current passing through the return path than through (+). And the single/thinner cable has the higher resistance btw.
I don't believe that this has any audible effect in this case anyway but to each his own.

You should ask the company about this, their answer could be quite interesting to read...
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Old 23rd April 2014, 11:56 PM   #9
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I say that from experience as i own a pair of HD650's and they are hard to drive to a satisfactory level. I have also tried making my own cables, and picked up an aftermarket cable i converted to balanced with an XLR plug to drive from my valve amp which is the only amp i have that does these headphones any justice. Portable players and opamp based amps like the O2 just don't cut it, they need something more substantial to have decent dynamics. Just because it makes sound at a high enough level doesn't mean it sounds in any way decent so i'm sorry but there is no way a line out level sounds in any way acceptable. If you truly believe that you are doing you and the headphones a grave injustice.

Use of RANDOM capitalized WORDS and comments like "screw Headphone amps, i never used one and never will in my life, Signal right from the SOURCE is the best signal there is !" and "HD650 btw have a supremely better sound signature than HD700 or HD800 crappy headphones" just screams Troll to me, there is a place for sensationalist nonsense like that and its called Head-Fi.

As for your original post i have seen factory supplied headphone cables with multiple cores, for example all the high end Grado models have eight conductors per cable which i assume was done to lower resistance, however i would have thought the added capacitance would be more of an issue. Using six cores with a larger return i guess achieves the same lower resistance. Having seven from the split i don't understand, unless the extra wire is a ground wrapped around the bundle and connected to the shield at the connector.
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Old 24th April 2014, 12:02 AM   #10
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Wouldn't a thicker cable lower the resistance with less side-effects than multiple thin cables? What's the idea behind this?
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