Lowest capacitance hum-rejecting 4-wire headphone cable configuration - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Headphone Systems

Headphone Systems Everything to do with Headphones

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd September 2013, 03:25 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greeley, PA
Default Lowest capacitance hum-rejecting 4-wire headphone cable configuration

Using 24 ga. DHC (Double Helix Cables) Nucleotide OCC stranded wire in teflon, to Sennheiser HD600s.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 06:58 AM   #2
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
RNMarsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: 2457 Cascade Trail; Cool, CA. 95614
Can you show us how to make it or buy it?

-Thx RNMarsh
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2013, 10:18 AM   #3
jcx is offline jcx  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ..
are you worried that you have a Cload sensitive amplifier? oscillates with normal headphone cables?
it not really possilbe to lower C by large factors by construction and still meet resonable size/flex/handling requirements

cable C is important to electrostatic headphones - you can look at Stax, Koss ES headphone cables for low C construction

but they aren't "hum rejecting" - simple twisted pair is usually fine for that
"common centroid" geometry, small spacing to improve over twisted par usually will increase C between the wires and make the cable stiffer

Last edited by jcx; 10th October 2013 at 10:46 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2013, 03:41 AM   #4
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
RNMarsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: 2457 Cascade Trail; Cool, CA. 95614
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post
are you worried that you have a C load sensitive amplifier? oscillates with normal headphone cables?

No, not at all. Just curious what you were referring to and a drawing helps visualize the cable design being mentioned.

Thx-RNMarsh
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2013, 02:48 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greeley, PA
Default Bad OP, no. Sit. Stay.

I screwed up. The thread was intended to be a question. Here's what I should have asked:

I have enough 24 ga. stranded copper w/teflon insulation to make a 15' headphone cable. What configuration will likely yield the best hum rejection (RFI doesn't seem to be a problem for my location), and low-enough capacitance not to cause noticeable high frequency rolloff?

The phones are a Beyer DT880/600 and a Senn HD600, fed by a Bottlehead Crack OTL amp.

Sorry for the confusion.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2013, 04:39 PM   #6
jcx is offline jcx  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ..
the Crack manual sample claims 120 output Z

I think most agree that a 200 kHz low pass is inaudible - so up to 6 nF could be driven by the Crack without any worries at all

I measured my HD600 cable a decade ago - but the links or forums I posted to are lost - I think it was ~1 nF

don't have a C meter or Z Bridge at home now


the C can be measured with a soundcard or most built in motherboard sound sytems and a few known R, C - there are a few websites, free software

Last edited by jcx; 11th October 2013 at 05:07 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2013, 04:59 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
With the Bottlehead Crank, with or without mods, and either the Beyers or Senns, the way to run the 4 wires (assuming this method even with a stereo plug on the end) is the simple 4 wire braid with a soft cotton oversleeve and DON'T pull it tight.

I suggest you visit the Chimera Labs site for details re capacitance, etc but freq roll off due to wiring shouldn't be of any significance at all.

With their interconnects, they suggest using twice the number of conductors and this same thing applies to headphone cables (see aftermarket suppliers) so if you can manage it for $s, I suggest you obtain more wire and run a 8 way braid, or 2 x 4 way braids, for both the 880s and the 600s - even if only using a simple 3 terminal 'jack plug'

I use this with my Beyers, Senn & AKG phones and it works every time to advantage

It's may be hard to find a 'soft' and 'noise free' outer sleeve - most of the woven plastic varieties are audible when brushed on clothes, etc and I now use a dark dyed cotton sleeve for all and add a small clip (just like the studio microphones) at the Y junction point to support the cable - stops the cable pulling on the headphones - don't know why this isn't standard practice these days.
__________________
... jh
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2013, 01:42 PM   #8
jcx is offline jcx  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ..
I don't see any pF, nF on that site - can you point, quote?

braid is more open than simple twisted pair, 300 Ohm headphones don't need extra conductors

I find the stock Senn headphone cable well engineered for the job - separate strength member, smooth high flex covering has very good mechanics - reduced problems from stiffness, dragging microphonic noise compared to any aftermarket/homebrew formula headphone cable I've seen
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2013, 03:20 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
If you're happy with the original cables, then there's obviously no need for you to change anything at all, but Mike was asking (post #1) about minimum capacitance and hum rejecting cables in a 4 wire setup, hence my post.

However, many people do use after market cables because they simply sound different &/or 'better' (regardless of their lack of technical specifications) and it's not at all difficult to build your own and see if the change in sound is to your own 'personal liking' - it is not always so!

For an amp like the Bottlehead driving a pair of Senn 600 or the Beyer 880s ( a rather different sound!) the benefits of better conductors in comparison to the standard cables aren't small and using multiples of the #24 stranded conductors (8 separate conductors, plus!) has been shown to produce even 'better' results, even tho this doesn't make much engineering sense.

The idea of the multi-way braid is akin to the original Litz configuration that was developed to reduce capacitance, inductance and resist the effects of external fields - it isn't a cheap exercise with good quality wire.

I hope this is of some assistance ... my 2 cents.
__________________
... jh
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th October 2013, 03:44 PM   #10
jcx is offline jcx  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ..
with 300 Ohm Senn up to several Ohms of cable R has no audible efect by Clark's ABX JND level vs frequncy plots

you can claim some unknown to psychoacoustics effect I suppose

but please quit misrepresenting the phsyics, EE of cables

Quote:
The idea of the multi-way braid is akin to the original Litz configuration that was developed to reduce capacitance, inductance and resist the effects of external fields
none out of 3 technically correct - extra wires sufrace area increases capacitance, braid effective loop area also is larger than star quad - braid is only "eye candy" - braid has no engineering justification

Litz was developed to reduce skin effect/proximity rising Z with frequency - not a issue with headphone cable thin wire, even less so with high 300 Ohm load

if twisted pair isn't enough then star quad can be a improvement in external mag field rejection - at the cost of Increased C over twisted pair for similar dimension cable

Last edited by jcx; 12th October 2013 at 03:56 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
An ultra Low Shunt Capacitance way for audio interconnections (LSC configuration) neazoi Analog Line Level 40 29th October 2013 09:25 PM
Best cable configuration? Nisbeth Everything Else 1 22nd January 2011 11:37 PM
How To: Lowest price, max quality hook-up wire KBK Parts 4 7th December 2008 04:10 AM
Amp4 Mod Round-up Ė Input wire, power caps and high capacitance speaker cable Peteruk Class D 10 4th April 2007 07:12 PM
How to wire a Ixos Gamma 7 bi-wire cable mangalchacha Multi-Way 1 13th April 2005 03:58 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:46 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2