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Old 6th May 2013, 05:27 AM   #11
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And out-of-phase headphones sounds absolutely awful. I would never intentionally do that ever.
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Old 6th May 2013, 05:54 AM   #12
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I detect left/right relative phase problems on stereo material much more accurately by noticing the stereo soundstage. In correct phase, you can place instuments across the soundstage. Out of phase it sounds to me like the sound is coming from only the extreme far edges of the soundstage and nothing is right in front-center. This effect is immediately noticeable and identifiable with speakers or headphones; probably more easily detected with headphones.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 07:38 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
So studios deliberately destroy proper stereo imaging?

FM stereo radio takes this to the ultimate degree?
Well, I don't know about studios, but radio stations definitely process the hell out of their signal. Especially compression, to try and widen their coverage area.

And at least once, I listened to a song on FM I had at hand. They were definitely "Extra-stereoizing" the mix for whatever reason.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 08:02 AM   #14
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Modern studio and broadcast processing equipment allows all sorts of modifications to the basic sound signal(s) coming from the performer(s). If you look at a televised concert you will see a host of microphones in use - not just a simple stereo pair or decca tree. If you look at how studio recordings are made you will also see a host of microphones (8 mikes for a drumset?). Vocalists nowadays, apart from opera singers, all seem to need very heavy hammering from a rack of processing gear to get their trademark sound. Then comes the mixing stage where a lot more hammering goes on before the audio can crawl out of the CD and vibrate some speakers or headphones.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 09:56 AM   #15
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And the techies roadies and humheads are running around with phasing guns to send an asymmetric waveform and detect any mics or cables that are accidentally out of phase. There's enough comb-filter effects or flutter echoes on instruments picked up by multiple mics without phase cancellation! Unless you're taking about the dual-capsule mics the Grateful Dead used for a while for ultimate feedback resistance (they only sang into on capsule, but both faced the same direction)...which didn't sound very good anyway.

We used to have all kinds of phase 'guns' and various little boxes to send & detect an asymmetrical waveform to make sure mics & even devices were phased the same, but I haven't been able to find one for sale now for years.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 10:33 AM   #16
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And the techies roadies and humheads are running around with phasing guns...
Stun, or kill?
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Old 14th November 2016, 08:23 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by head_unit View Post
Well, I don't know about studios, but radio stations definitely process the hell out of their signal. Especially compression, to try and widen their coverage area.

And at least once, I listened to a song on FM I had at hand. They were definitely "Extra-stereoizing" the mix for whatever reason.
[Emphasis mine]

Sorry to revive a long dead thread, but lots of us find old posts via google, when you need specific information the date doesn't matter. Anyway, in the interest of accuracy, I felt like I had to point this out..

Now I may be wrong--wouldn't be the first time--but the bolded sentence is misunderstood hooey, right? I can't imagine the content of a signal having jack to do with coverage area.
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Old 15th November 2016, 06:48 AM   #18
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>> compression, to try and widen their coverage area.
> hooey, right? I can't imagine the content of a signal having jack to do with coverage area.


Listeners tend to "like" the LOUDEST station.

The carrier strength (measured on a field strength meter) is not affected by signal, compressed or silent. Yes, the 50uV/M line is not moved.

Most radios, to a point, AVC all stations to about the same carrier strength at the detector. (FM does this indirectly by clipping to uniform level.)

The loudness at the speaker is strongly influenced by heavy modulation. These stations will attract more listeners. (You might think listeners would turn-up or turn-down as needed. But scanning the dial, the strong stations leap out at you.)

A flip side is interference. Even at the same carrier-to-noise ratio, the over-loud signal will "cut through" better.

As a range extension from 50 miles to 60 miles (just 1.6dB more over-compression) is potentially 44% more area and (if uniformly populated) 44% more listeners to claim to advertisers, over-compression is a fiscal imperative.

In a non-commercial field, amateur radio, speech is usually processed to raise level. Old rigs cut speech bass and then amplified into clippers followed by high-cut filters. Speech can be clipped horrendously and still be intelligible (though not flattering or pleasing). Fast compressors were added so clipping could be less. I understand that 20 years ago digital processors were developed to do all the tricks and more than even AM broadcasters use. Fairly inexpensive PCB you tucked behind your mike jack. Probably built-in now.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:20 PM   #19
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If you could understand audio phase well and know how to correct issues, you can put your finger on your headphone when the mix sound not quite right. If it is out of phase, you can make a switch. You can do left/right channel flip and see if problem occurs.
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