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Old 11th March 2013, 03:18 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NwAvGuy
WHAT’S AN O2? The Objective2 (O2) is my attempt at a “One-Size-Fits-Nearly-All” headphone amp. It can drive most any headphone from the most sensitive IEMs to some really power hungry full size cans from 16 to 600 ohms. It’s small, inexpensive, and runs on batteries or AC power. The design is freely available to everyone subject to the License terms.
WHY DID YOU CALL IT THE OBJECTIVE2? I’m an electrical engineer, serious audio geek, and took a very objective approach to the design. It’s a minimalist amp focused on the best performance possible for the least amount of money.
While the banter is interesting, RocketScientist's objective (pun intended) shouldn't be misconstrued, or altered after the fact.
I built my O2 mainly for portable use, and RS claimed it couldn't really be made smaller using through-hole (and DIY friendly) parts. In other words, this was part of the design goal.
Some users were disappointed that it wasn't smaller, but it and a digital player together are smaller than the Walkman they've replaced.
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Last edited by sofaspud; 11th March 2013 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 11th March 2013, 03:38 AM   #22
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofaspud
Walkman they've replaced.
in what world is the O2 plus DAP smaller than a walkman? even my old sony tape walkman from 1988 is smaller.

@xnorculture
aah yes this again, all anyone ever needs is the O2 forever more. If that were the case, what the hell are you doing here? didnt you build your rigs a year or 2 ago? or now that the remaining subjectivites are mostly just ignoring your constant posturing, you have to pick on people who insist on even higher objective results than you do and admit they may be overdoing it for intellectual benefit?

forget it opc, counter culture and xnor are definitely part of the Objective killjoy borg.

you see guys, its really not for any user to prove beyond doubt to you what their preference is and why, as long as its stated as such. they do not have any responsibility to do so.

I love how Owens anecdotal results were accepted because they came out with no difference with one of the more benign headphone loads around; a test that is therefor not statistically significant even anecdotally. the burden of proof seems relaxed if it matches the status quo. jh13 performs better with the wire too IME, as does K1000, DT880-990/600Ω, but I have no falsifiable objective proof of that subjective event... I have a feeling you will not accept this?

nevermind that I suspect I could build up a the wire SE-SE seconds PCB, strap 4 x 9v batteries, or a nicely made breadboard bipolar LM317/37 regulator with solid copper foil GND layer to it and still better the O2 objectively, for less money than the O2. the LME parts have come down considerably in price and they have such huge PSRR that you only need to do proper housekeeping on a regular power supply and have a well designed PCB to do well with them.

Last edited by qusp; 11th March 2013 at 03:41 AM.
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Old 11th March 2013, 04:09 AM   #23
opc is offline opc  Canada
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Wait!!

It just dawned on me after two delicious Orval beers what is actually going on here.

It's a new subgroup that I didn't think could exist:

"Being objectivist up until the point when it is subjectively determined that there is no longer a need to be objective"

Wow... that's real mind bender.

I'm going to have another beer and mull it over

Cheers,
Owen

Last edited by opc; 11th March 2013 at 04:12 AM. Reason: decided a spinning smiley was more appropriate than a stationary one.
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Old 11th March 2013, 04:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
in what world is the O2 plus DAP smaller than a walkman? even my old sony tape walkman from 1988 is smaller.
Did you calculate it? I just did, for a Best Buy webstore CD Walkman vs. the B2-080 enclosure. It wasn't even close... Walkman @ 458 cm^3 to the 02 @ 264 cm^3.

My point is only that NwAvGuy was faithful to his stated design goals. If that makes me a fanboy or whatever else, so be it. If your design goals are different than his, the O2 isn't for you. It's really as simple as that.
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Old 11th March 2013, 06:03 AM   #25
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Quote:
NwAvGuy was faithful to his stated design goals.
yep and those design goals contain multiple compromises, that is our point. and none of that has any meaning here in this thread.

is there a better measuring dac and amp than the O2? the answer is a resounding yes and not a small amount better. any other factors you add in, price, size, no SMD, audibility (by your metric), easily build-able by beginners who cannot read a schematic etc... have no meaning

Quote:
Did you calculate it? I just did, for a Best Buy webstore CD Walkman vs. the B2-080 enclosure. It wasn't even close... Walkman @ 458 cm^3 to the 02 @ 264 cm^3.
what the hell kind of huge thing is that? thats the most ridiculous sized CD walkman ever, arent we supposed to be comparing like for like here? you also skipped the volume taken up by the DAP and cables with the O2
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Old 11th March 2013, 06:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
yep and those design goals contain multiple compromises, that is our point. and none of that has any meaning here in this thread.
None? Probably not. But then again I did not bring it up. To repeat, I just responded to what I viewed as a misrepresentation of RS's design goals.
Quote:
is there a better measuring dac and amp than the O2?
My recollection is that RS even said, in so many words, that The Wire would outperform his O2. No doubt there are many others (and the purpose of the OP).
Quote:
what the hell kind of huge thing is that? thats the most ridiculous sized CD walkman ever, arent we supposed to be comparing like for like here? you also skipped the volume taken up by the DAP and cables with the O2
It's a Sony DEJ011 thing. My DAP is about the size of 2 USB thumbdrives. I'm again skipping the cables.
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Old 11th March 2013, 11:40 AM   #27
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@qusp: Since you put words in other people's mouths I indeed take your anecdotes (or let's say most of what you say) with a bag of salt.
Never did I say that
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
all anyone ever needs is the O2 forever more.
so stop using such straw man fallacies.


I still do plan on building a "The Wire" and comparing it to other amps including the O2.

@opc: No reason to jump on the qusp-train (wreck).

Last edited by xnor; 11th March 2013 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 11th March 2013, 01:24 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by xnor View Post
No, I'm just a non-BS-ist.
With a dash of self-righteous myopia mixed in for flavor, perhaps?
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Last edited by Ken Newton; 11th March 2013 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 11th March 2013, 01:27 PM   #29
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Youve demonstrated it and the pack mentality time and time again here and (mostly) on the other forum, I have no need to put words in your mouth.

shall we add stunted objectivist to the list of funny word plays? interesting word combination. there is no bandwagon to jump on, i'm just calling what I see and I expect opc is doing the same. if you dont like the characterization, i'm afraid thats bad luck.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post
@qusp: Since you put words in other people's mouths I indeed take your anecdotes (or let's say most of what you say) with a bag of salt.
Never did I say that

so stop using such straw man fallacies.


I still do plan on building a "The Wire" and comparing it to other amps including the O2.

@opc: No reason to jump on the qusp-train (wreck).

Last edited by qusp; 11th March 2013 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 11th March 2013, 01:42 PM   #30
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its illustrated by the fact there is only a single person from the O2 fanclub that has shown some initiative to keep building stuff. Even if it is just a projection of what the desktop version might have looked like, he is still to be congratulated. how many years is it now? and the genepool for new designs is stagnant.

the leader has vanished and the crowd is still milling around and many dont seem to know what to do with themselves. fine if you dont feel the need to build more stuff, but its puzzling that so many continue to hang around the singular thread, or others with O2 in the subject, constantly towing the party line by quoting the same studies, quoting the O2 manual/website and persistently questioning any attempt to take objective performance further

Last edited by qusp; 11th March 2013 at 01:47 PM.
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