Spud amps

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Stixx

Stixx

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Joined 2003
original-ton.net
Dsavitsk's spud amps are well thought out... though I haven't built them I would recommend them.

For the Torpedo you could check the HeadFi site... there's a few discussions and an official build thread.

Then I have built quite a few headphone amps myself... the last one being a spud amp based on the german C3G transformer coupled and fed by a Salas shunt reg. See schematic attached --> it has been refined since and sure sounds gorgeous.
 

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Stixx

Stixx

Member
Joined 2003
original-ton.net
How did you decide on this particular design?
Click to expand...

The very first headphone amp that I built was after a C3G OTL-schematic,
and I do like this tube ever since.
Since I am not the pro in designing stuff (like Dsavitsk ;)) I also wanted to keep
it as simple as possible... with the exception of the Salas shunt regulator that I
have used in my amps quite a bit. After I tried the first Salas shunt as psu there
was no going back... at least in line stages or headphone amps.

There is nothing that provides better spatial imaging or speed than the shunt regs.
 
qusp

qusp

Member
Joined 2009
Navyblue said:
Thanks. :)

As usual, the more I read, the more confused I am. :D Different tubes, different circuits, different regulators, different transformers.

Btw, does your transformer coupled C3G betters the OTL one? How do they differ?

Thanks. :)
Click to expand...

my advice is to leave and leave now before its too late!! you'll build them all just to see which you like best, then you will build anything that seems interesting.

you guys think i'm joking
 
Stixx

Stixx

Member
Joined 2003
original-ton.net
my advice is to leave and leave now before its too late!! you'll build them all just to see which you like best, then you will build anything that seems interesting.

you guys think i'm joking
Click to expand...

You are not joking... ;)

The real fun in DIY is building something, learning along the way, actually "creating" something when a certain level of perfection in building is involved etc.

But as for best sound everything is a matter of personal preference.... tube, solid state, hybrid... who knows which is the right path to audio nirvana? In the end only you.
You can build one amp, like the sound and be done with it.... or you get bitten and you can't stop building stuff...:) (for various reasons...)

@Navyblue: sure this is confusing with about 20 spud schematics floating around the net... But as qusp put it... you have to start at one point and then see for yourself
how you like it. You will then know whether you instantly tackle the next build or not.
To your question: Yes, the transformer coupled C3G amps does sound better in terms of neutrality, attack and timbre. But I might as well find out that one future project
(called The Wire) destroys them all... :D
 
N

Navyblue

Member
Joined 2012
qusp said:
my advice is to leave and leave now before its too late!! you'll build them all just to see which you like best, then you will build anything that seems interesting.

you guys think i'm joking
Click to expand...

I don't know if it is too late already, but most likely I am not as deep as you guys. :D

I first build an SS amp (Beta 22), then wonder how does tube sound. So I picked a lowish voltage hybrid (SOHA II) as I didn't want to deal with high voltage, then I wonder how does real tube amp sounds and so here I am. Btw I haven't done building the SOHA II. :D

Stixx said:
You are not joking... ;)

The real fun in DIY is building something, learning along the way, actually "creating" something when a certain level of perfection in building is involved etc.

But as for best sound everything is a matter of personal preference.... tube, solid state, hybrid... who knows which is the right path to audio nirvana? In the end only you.
You can build one amp, like the sound and be done with it.... or you get bitten and you can't stop building stuff...:) (for various reasons...)

@Navyblue: sure this is confusing with about 20 spud schematics floating around the net... But as qusp put it... you have to start at one point and then see for yourself
how you like it. You will then know whether you instantly tackle the next build or not.
To your question: Yes, the transformer coupled C3G amps does sound better in terms of neutrality, attack and timbre. But I might as well find out that one future project
(called The Wire) destroys them all... :D
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I'd like to build something that would sound different than what I have, something that has that "typical tube sound". From what I read, I want a SET amp, and spud SET amp seems to best represent the "genre"? I think I'd be quite disappointed if the design sound like a solid state amp. If possible, I'd appreciate if you guys can point me in the right direction.

However I understand that if we go really high end a tube amp can sound like solid state and vice versa.
 
Stixx

Stixx

Member
Joined 2003
original-ton.net
...build something that would sound different than what I have, something that has that "typical tube sound".
Click to expand...

Don't want to be too pesky but what is typical tube sound? I hope not that "warm, honey sweet and softened" tube sound...
A good tube amp to my ears has to sound neutral, fast and has to render instruments in a natural and authentic way... this is why I recently sold my only solid state device (an M3, from the same stable than your Beta 22).

Other than that you have so many variables to tweak in building a SET headphone amp that you can just start with a schematic and adjust/finetune it to your liking (B+, current, parts choice, type of psu ...).

Attached are a few more spud schematics (just to give you a hard time ;))...
the 6H30 from K&K will probably be what you are looking for..., or my C3G spud with a conventional psu (when you don't want to use the shunt reg...).

Choices, choices...
 

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N

Navyblue

Member
Joined 2012
Thanks for the schematics, I wouldn't be able to find them otherswise, greatly appreciate it. :) The 6H30 from K&K look simple enough.

I agree that technically competent amps are (should be) transparent, which made them more alike than different. At one time, I was looking for the most transparent sounding gears that gives the most realistic timbre. I still have that tendency especially when I am paying big bucks, however lately I am somewhat into coloured sounding gears, I like to switch flavour depending on mood.

I am not really looking for a warm and fuzzy sound (is that the sound of capacitors?). I have heard a (I presume) a tube amp from a show room, I can't really describe the sound well, but basically it is extremely coloured sounding that it gives a fake sense clarity, very midrange dominant. I think some people would call that "emotional" (of course it's just distortion). I probably not want to go all the way to that extreme but I think I want something in that direction.

Do you still recommend the 6H30 from K&K? Btw, is there any reason why would I not want to use a shunt regulator apart from cost/complexity?
 
rjm

rjm

Member
Joined 2004
phonoclone.com
Paid Member
The central idea for these amps is that they be cheap. What this means in practice is salvage iron: if you are paying the going rate for new output and power transformers, as well as perhaps filter chokes, you'd be better served by a better circuit with a proper driver stage and higher power, better-sounding output tubes.

So, essentially, you usually end up designing the circuit around whatever iron you accumulate off ebay or wherever, and the tubes in your drawer. If it's for headphones rather than speakers, you have to pay a bit more attention to hum and noise. If it's for desktop speakers, pretty much anything goes.

The basic, fundamental problem is the output transformers: if they are small and cheap, there's no bass response and the sound is lo-fi. If they are large and expensive, you are wasting your time with crap tubes when you should be building a 2A3 DHSET.

By the way, the single stage design is a low-rent shortcut, not a "less-is-more" hi-fi thing. Driving the output stage directly from a 50k or 100k volume pot will work, just, but it is unlikely to sound very good. Volume dependent frequency response ... practically shouts "student dorm".
 
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N

Navyblue

Member
Joined 2012
I get the impression that SET amps are not known for their technical abilities, but rather for their coloured sound. Am I right to think that?

Say I am getting a custom transformer from say Electraprint, so you suggest that I should be looking at 2A3 tubes? Is there a schematic out there that you can point me in the direction of?

Thanks. :)
 
Stixx

Stixx

Member
Joined 2003
original-ton.net
The central idea for these amps is that they be cheap. What this means in practice is salvage iron: if you are paying the going rate for new output and power transformers, as well as perhaps filter chokes, you'd be better served by a better circuit with a proper driver stage and higher power, better-sounding output tubes.

So, essentially, you usually end up designing the circuit around whatever iron you accumulate off ebay or wherever, and the tubes in your drawer. If it's for headphones rather than speakers, you have to pay a bit more attention to hum and noise. If it's for desktop speakers, pretty much anything goes.

The basic, fundamental problem is the output transformers: if they are small and cheap, there's no bass response and the sound is lo-fi. If they are large and expensive, you are wasting your time with crap tubes when you should be building a 2A3 DHSET.

By the way, the single stage design is a low-rent shortcut, not a "less-is-more" hi-fi thing. Driving the output stage directly from a 50k or 100k volume pot will work, just, but it is unlikely to sound very good. Volume dependent frequency response ... practically shouts "student dorm".
Click to expand...

Are you trying to make a point with your biased ...err.. statements? :D
 
Bigun

Bigun

Member
Joined 2009
diyaudio.com/community/threads/tgm8-an-amplifier-based-on-rod-elliot-p3a.245619/
Paid Member
Navyblue said:
I get the impression that SET amps are not known for their technical abilities, but rather for their coloured sound. Am I right to think that?
Click to expand...

I believe SETs can be designed to be sound neutral sounding even if not of the lowest distortion.
 
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mark02131

mark02131

Member
Joined 2005
rjm said:
By the way, the single stage design is a low-rent shortcut, not a "less-is-more" hi-fi thing. Driving the output stage directly from a 50k or 100k volume pot will work, just, but it is unlikely to sound very good. Volume dependent frequency response ... practically shouts "student dorm".
Click to expand...

Maybe you can help me understand As the volume goes up and down the frequency response changes?

DHTROB made one of these with 5842 tube and says it sound amazingly good but from what your saying that should not be the case.
 
jpak

jpak

Member
Joined 2007
Stixx said:
Dsavitsk's spud amps are well thought out... though I haven't built them I would recommend them.

For the Torpedo you could check the HeadFi site... there's a few discussions and an official build thread.

Then I have built quite a few headphone amps myself... the last one being a spud amp based on the german C3G transformer coupled and fed by a Salas shunt reg. See schematic attached --> it has been refined since and sure sounds gorgeous.
Click to expand...

Which 10k:300 OPT did you use, I take it was custom order?
 
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