THE WIRE conglomerate build thread, impressions and gallery - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Headphone Systems

Headphone Systems Everything to do with Headphones

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th February 2012, 01:57 AM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by neb001 View Post
I haven't finished anything because I'm trying to sort/plan out everything and I'm also trying to pick up arduino so I can configure a 7-segment lcd display for the relay attenuator that I'm planning to use. What's everyone using for a case?
I can't believe qusp let you say the words 'relay attenuator'. Is there no other vol control you could use? What devices are upstream of your wire? If you're already using an arduino it would be more compact and perhaps better solution to use digital volume control?

Apologies, I feel the need to venture slightly off topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
nah its 100% DIY and i never planned for it to go on sale so its not documented and i dont plan to, also perhaps you would do a double take if you saw the cost to complete a unit. i'll have more pics of it in the next couple of days, just uses a modified buffalo II, a PSU/MCU of my design, but laid out by Nattonrice, transformer coupled spdif and the bal-bal wire. all parts are OTT and once the chassis is finished it will have cost around 1500-1750 minimum. its more transportable than portable, but comfortably fits in my manbag or coat
I can't help myself - What is this spdif thing you mention? Did you go to an antique store? When you mentioned that project previously I'd erroneously assumed you were feeding it from an iPad via usb. I suppose UAC2 devices of OTT nature don't really lend themselves to portable/transportable implementations at the moment.

qn Research Labs Pty Ltd must be some sort of privately funded research lab that only work on classified projects.

Last edited by hochopeper; 17th February 2012 at 02:02 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 01:58 AM   #12
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
qusp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Quote:
Yay go me
hehe indeed, thx mate! thx even for the wrinkles lol LED indication circuit was completely your idea, happy to give credit where credit is due =P
Quote:
I can't help myself - What is this spdif thing you mention? Did you go to an antique store? When you mentioned that project previously I'd erroneously assumed you were feeding it from an iPad via usb. I suppose UAC2 devices of OTT nature don't really lend themselves to portable/transportable implementations at the moment.
nah i will leave an i2s input, but theres no USB, the ipad usb audio implementation is a hack and performs as such, but if a suitable UAC2 solution comes along for portable i'll use that via i2s or spin another pcb. as it is theres nothing suitable, even if there was something able to be made small enough, the current needed to run them is too much for portable.

for now optical or mini bnc from my iriver is the transport, the river has a wired remote, so thats all i need to have access to rather than pulling out what may look like an IED in public transport or on a plane. runs on rockbox too. the sabre spdif implementation is actually pretty good and the input board i'm using uses a very nice scientific conversions transformer. optical is very handy for portable due to the isolation from grounds and if another more modern device is released with digital out its likely to be optical; by that i mean one that is able to be used as a digital transport, perhaps with touchscreen, but without having to buy something that includes an inferior dac and headphone amp to get it.
my plan eventually is to spin an SD card reader PCB,m perhaps based on 'the ultimate source' and connect by LVDS

Quote:
qn Research Labs Pty Ltd must be some sort of privately funded research lab that only work on classified projects.
yep, if we told you what we are doing we'de have to kill you

Last edited by qusp; 17th February 2012 at 02:16 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 03:50 AM   #13
neb001 is offline neb001  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by hochopeper View Post
I can't believe qusp let you say the words 'relay attenuator'. Is there no other vol control you could use? What devices are upstream of your wire? If you're already using an arduino it would be more compact and perhaps better solution to use digital volume control?
Woah, why so much hate for a relay based attenuator? It's definitely better matched than most standard pots. It's also fairly simple to short out to completely bypass the entire volume control and use a digital volume control upstream. Of course, it could always be worse, I could be saying that I'm using a LDR attenuator

qusp: I hope you post plenty of pictures when it's complete
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 04:19 AM   #14
Just DIY!
diyAudio Member
 
pinnocchio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Montreal
Relay attenuators (R-2R ladder) have tons of advantages when well implemented using latching relays. Aside the relay switching noise which I can understand is quite ennoying when changing volume, I don't see the hate for them...

Beside, I've also been using digital volume control on my dual mono BII and as much as I want to like it, there's something about it I don't like... ah yeah... I have multiple sources on my preamp and can manage different volume for each one of them. BII volumite, well, just BII volumite...

The other option would be to use PGA2310 or 2311 but then it is not on par with R-2R... The other option would be to use mosfets as switches instead of relays. That is pretty quiet and works pretty good...

Anyway, volume in digital domain is quite good but I guess to everyone is own taste!

Ciao!
Do
__________________
PREAMPs : AMB α10 + JC-80 clone | Balanced DCB1 | LDR3x | AMPs: AMB β24 | Aleph 5 | FirstOne | ML-2 | TSSA | Telos 390 Clone | My_Ref FE
DACs : TPA Buffalo II + OPC's NTD1 I/V | TPA OPUS + IVY III | Moon 380D DSD Speakers : Jim Holtz Statements | Astasia SD | Tubasson Mark 2
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 04:33 AM   #15
opc is offline opc  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
opc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I would tend to agree with the above. I love my BII digital domain volume control, but before that I used a relay based shunt volume control and it was by far my favorite volume control setup, and offered much more flexibility than the digital volume control does.

I prefer the taper and the sound of the digital attenuator, but not by a very large margin.

My personal pecking order is:

1. Proper digital attenuator (a la ESS DAC style, NOT windows volume control!)
2. Shunt relay attenuator
3. Shunt stepped attenuator
4. Ladder stepped attenuator
5. Standard stepped attenuator
6. PGA
7. Dual gang resistive element pot
8. Full volume while wearing earplugs
9. SSRs or mosfet based relay style attenuators

- I've never heard a lightspeed, so I can't comment.

Has anyone here ever measured a mosfet or SSR? I promise you, it's not pretty. They're significantly worse than a standard relay, and it's actually quite audible at low volume levels. I personally avoid them like the plague.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Owen

P.S. the ladies love the sound of my clicking relay shunt attenuator...

Last edited by opc; 17th February 2012 at 04:35 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 04:54 AM   #16
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
qusp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
yeah i would tend to agree, shunt relay controls arent that bad, no hate here, but properly done high bit depth digital control on digital sources is just logical and completely transparent. pinnochio, if you dislike the sound of the volumite, you dislike the sound of your dac, provided you have set the gain on your amps so they are reasonably well suited to the load, the mechanism to set the volume is the same mechanism used to make a loud or soft sample, i dont know what the something could be, but i would suggest its in your head.

my top 3 are all digital
titan 64 bit floating point volume enacted in the DSP on the i2s stream
puremusic 64 bit floating point volume with noise shaping
Sabre 40 bit integrated volume
electronically controlled analogue attenuator
Shunt stepped attenuator
Relay shunt attenuator (but i cannot stand the click clack)
Standard Stepped (havent tried ladder)
quality resistive element pot
LDR
PGA (i dislike going to all this trouble with the signal and then putting everything through the integrated opamps)

Last edited by qusp; 17th February 2012 at 04:56 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 05:00 AM   #17
jdkJake is online now jdkJake  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Seminole, FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by opc View Post
P.S. the ladies love the sound of my clicking relay shunt attenuator...
By all means, please share with us the details of said attenuator.

Any thing that serves such noble dual purpose is far and above, a most sought after choice for me!
__________________
-- jk --
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 05:16 AM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
My avoidance of relays was based on the misconception that people don't often have more than one source for a headphone rig, which makes it simpler to use dig volume control. I've not done any comparison between the different methods. I differ to qusp and opc's experiences as they've got miles more experience with these than I do.

opc, what do they say about the appearance of your tiny lpuhp amps if they love the sound of clicking shunt attenuators
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 05:24 AM   #19
Just DIY!
diyAudio Member
 
pinnocchio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Montreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
yeah i would tend to agree, shunt relay controls arent that bad, no hate here, but properly done high bit depth digital control on digital sources is just logical and completely transparent. pinnochio, if you dislike the sound of the volumite, you dislike the sound of your dac, provided you have set the gain on your amps so they are reasonably well suited to the load, the mechanism to set the volume is the same mechanism used to make a loud or soft sample, i dont know what the something could be, but i would suggest its in your head.

my top 3 are all digital
titan 64 bit floating point volume enacted in the DSP on the i2s stream
puremusic 64 bit floating point volume with noise shaping
Sabre 40 bit integrated volume
electronically controlled analogue attenuator
Shunt stepped attenuator
Relay shunt attenuator (but i cannot stand the click clack)
Standard Stepped (havent tried ladder)
quality resistive element pot
LDR
PGA (i dislike going to all this trouble with the signal and then putting everything through the integrated opamps)
Hey Qusp, you misread me here...

Quote:
... ah yeah... I have multiple sources on my preamp and can manage different volume for each one of them. BII volumite, well, just BII volumite...
What I disliked was the fact that I could not manage multiple sources with it. Just the BII by itself. Digital domain volume for digital source does indeed make lots of sense and sounds really good but I still prefer my relay R-2R ladder...

Thanks for sharing the different type of digital attenuators, I might try some of them.

Ciao!
Do
__________________
PREAMPs : AMB α10 + JC-80 clone | Balanced DCB1 | LDR3x | AMPs: AMB β24 | Aleph 5 | FirstOne | ML-2 | TSSA | Telos 390 Clone | My_Ref FE
DACs : TPA Buffalo II + OPC's NTD1 I/V | TPA OPUS + IVY III | Moon 380D DSD Speakers : Jim Holtz Statements | Astasia SD | Tubasson Mark 2
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2012, 05:27 AM   #20
neb001 is offline neb001  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
yeah i would tend to agree, shunt relay controls arent that bad, no hate here, but properly done high bit depth digital control on digital sources is just logical and completely transparent.
I wanted flexibility for my wire amp build, so I'm including the relay attenuator. As I said before, it's easy to simply engage a relay to completely bypass the entire attenuator and use the sabre digital volume control

Where does one acquire a titan board? All I can find is that it's made by LightHarmonic and it's a part of their Da Vinci dac.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lotus^2 build and listening impressions zman01 Full Range 18 29th October 2011 07:27 PM
Photo Gallery -- Simple SE build rkevans Tubes / Valves 35 10th August 2008 12:42 PM
Follow up to cap sleeve thread,Wire color makes a diffrence!! CryingDragon Parts 48 24th April 2008 03:07 AM
Bi wiring/single wire distortion thread jneutron Parts 85 5th January 2006 12:20 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:39 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2