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Old 12th January 2011, 10:27 AM   #321
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Hi JonusKarud,

The design you pointed to was actually what I had in mind. If I were to use a double sided PCB in the middle, then I only need 3 pieces of stators to work with a double diaphragms design. I can do that easily. I agree with you that it will take some experiments to actually find out if the theory works. I will find the time to experiment with this design.

Wachara C.
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Old 12th January 2011, 10:29 AM   #322
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Hi Calvin,

Your description of 3-layer sandwich-membrane confuses me. I can't get a clear picture in my head. Can you please elaborate?

Wachara C.
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Old 12th January 2011, 12:25 PM   #323
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Hi Wachara,
if youŽre going to try the three stator design, theres a whole bunch of things you can experiment with! For example, connect the outer stator to ground via a 47-200k resistor so that the outer membrane is low pass limited to 1000 Hz. You can also try to give the two membranes slightly different mounting tensions, as I had better (cleaner and tighter) sound when I did this in my experiments.

Now I'm so inspired I must take up my experiments again! I'm thinking of something like a double membrane wire stator Jecklin Float EarSpeaker!
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Old 12th January 2011, 01:08 PM   #324
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Hi JonasKarud,

Thanks for your suggestion. Let me design the middle stator, cut the parts, and let's have some fun.

Wachara C.
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Old 12th January 2011, 01:19 PM   #325
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

the 3-layer membrane would yield two layers of film and a layer of conductive adhesive in between. Think of a double sided PCB, where the two copper surfaces represent the film and the core material (FR4 or alike) represents the conductive adhesive.
The two film layers would shield the core layer against environmental influences like humiduity or sratch resistance. Leakage could be reduced, since thereŽd always be an insulating layer between the conductive core and the outside world. The films would also function as an additional insulating layer which allows for an increased flashover treshold.
Though beeing very thin films the flashover treshold of the film could reach a couple hundred volts.

So its a totally different thing as a 3-stator-ESL.
A different tension of the films is not needed. The close mechanical coupling of the two membranes lead to a beghaviour as if it were just one membrane. So the mechanical tension ofthe films is connected in series, which leads to a reduced overall tension, hence lower Fs. Since the Fs of HPs easily ranges around 100Hz the reduction in Fs may well be responsible for the improved bass response.
This is simialar to the Fs reduction caused by the increased weight of a 3-layer membrane.

jauu
Calvin

Last edited by Calvin; 12th January 2011 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 12th January 2011, 01:25 PM   #326
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Hmm. That would be extremely difficult to DIY.

Wachara C.
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Old 12th January 2011, 01:52 PM   #327
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I believe there was (is) a company, using twin membrane in inverted ESL i.e. one film metallized, one plain, with the coating in between.
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Old 13th January 2011, 08:29 AM   #328
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

afaik Audiostatic claimed to have used a compound diaphragm in their1990ies decade models.

jauu
Calvin
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Old 14th January 2011, 02:48 AM   #329
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I still can't figure out how a sandwiched diaphragm would outperform a single layer. When you glue them together, they become one. So what's the difference compared with a thicker Mylar. I understand that by sandwiching, you get a better weather shield. But for sound, I really doubt it.

However, with a triple stators and 2 diaphragms design, I think it can improve the sound pressure. It will probably make the sound louder and bass deeper. Don't you think?

Wachara C.
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Old 14th January 2011, 07:06 AM   #330
Calvin is online now Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

there are several, methods to improve bass response. One of which is to use a heavier and thicker membrane. This is what Stax has done with the C32. They could have achieved the same result with a coated and equally thick mono-membrane. But besides the acoustic response, safety and longevity aspects have to be dealt with and may have been the decisive points to choose the sandwich membrane over a mono-membrane.

2nd answer is yes.

jauu
Calvin
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