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Old 11th January 2011, 10:32 AM   #311
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

I understood it that the membrane is a 3-layer sandwich, assumable two films with a conductive layer sandwiched in between. This could improve bass-response slightly and flashover safety margin considerably. Also the sensitivity of the conductive layer against environmental stress like hunidity is largly reduced.
You just need a method to bond all 3 layers together so that the sandwich is longtime stable.

jauu
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Old 11th January 2011, 11:20 AM   #312
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Hi Calvin,

That won't be too difficult to do at all. In fact I have often thought about it. I think that I can use a double sided PCB as the middle stator.

By doing a triple stator design, will the sound level be a lot louder also?

Wachara C.
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Old 11th January 2011, 02:47 PM   #313
vaughn is offline vaughn  United States
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I have read that the diaphragm is a sandwich design, which seems easy enough to do with two .9 microns films bonded with spray adhesive.

How would you implement 3 stators?
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Old 11th January 2011, 04:15 PM   #314
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Hi Matt,

I don't think that's it. It's more like putting 2 sets of ES drivers together. Something like this - stator, spacer, diaphragm, spacer, stator, stator, spacer, diaphragm, spacer, and stator. The two stators in the middle need to be of different charges - one plus and the other minus. I think these two stators can be replaced easily with a double sided PCB.

Do you think that this is worth exploring?

Wachara C.
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Old 11th January 2011, 05:11 PM   #315
vaughn is offline vaughn  United States
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It is certainly interesting...

I imagine the benefits would mostly be in the bass region?

Would this be similar to an isobarik subwoofer?
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Old 11th January 2011, 05:16 PM   #316
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Quote from the document:
"1. Frequency extension: bass is much firmer and goes lower. Overall, the C32 is much more natural / realistic sounding in comparison to 007A.
3. Transients and impact: the 007A simply sounds slow in comparison to C32"

This was the reason for thinking it was a double membrane design, as experiments I did ten years ago with a double membrane Ear speaker showed exactly these improvements.

But I don't know for sure, the improvements can be from other reasons. Maybe Stax have optimized size and shape of the hole-free area at the perimeter edge of the stator?
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Old 11th January 2011, 05:24 PM   #317
vaughn is offline vaughn  United States
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I wonder how difficult this type of double diaphragm unit is to drive compared to the traditional single diaphragm?
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Old 11th January 2011, 07:38 PM   #318
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The ear speakers I built years ago had this config: Outside stator connected to ground, then membrane with positive bias, then middle stator connected to drive transformer, then membrane with negative bias, and closest to the ear, stator connected to ground. Safe and sound! Stators were made of pertinax if I remember correctly.
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Old 12th January 2011, 08:34 AM   #319
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

while double diaphragm systems indeed may make a sense in LS-panels I canīt think of a good reason to do the same in HPs. A double membrane adds volume in a restricted frequency range and counters to a degree the SPL loss due to the acoustic phase cancellation. This is not needed if apc doesnīt apply as it is the case if the membrane is positioned in close proximity to the ear.
The fabrication process of a double-membrane ESL is much more demanding, regardless if it is a 2-stator or 3-stator design. The precision needed for a HP-capsule would be extreme and as such cost would increase by much.
I also canīt find anywhere any hint to a double membrane/3-stator design.

A layered sandwich-membrane on the other hand makes a difference.
In Tokyo - Fall 2010 headphone festival - Head-Fi.org Community Mr Arnaud says:
Quote:
Next, I asked about the diaphragm: it is a new design. Something about a complicated manufacturing process because their are three layers assembled together by heating process. The thickness is higher than Omega 2 because while a light / thin diaphragm is good for transients, it is affected by "low" frequency resonances. This time around, it would appear that Stax has tried to achieve maximum stiffness (and damping, hence the multiple layers?) with the new diaphragm. Anyhow, it is a complex manufacturing process which I guess is driving the cost up.
This clearly indicates a 3-layer sandwich-membrane to me. I assume, that the two outer layers are made from a plastic-film like PET and the inner layer is a material with sticky as well as slightly conductive properties, maybe a kind of doped adhesive. Alternatively there may be just one base film like PET and the third layer may be a protective layer formed of a polymere or a nano-laquer.
Bonding the films with a kind of spray adhesive of uncertain properties will very probabely either not work at all or not work long time stable.
The adhesive needs certain conductive properties and certain mechanical properties, among these bonding strength/stickyness, flexibility and resistance against constant shear and wear, low weight and low film thickness, etc. etc. Iīd assume a form of a nano-laquer as possible solution.

jauu
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Old 12th January 2011, 10:11 AM   #320
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I was experimenting with Headphones from an article in Wireless World,
November 1971, similar to this:
HeadWize - Project: Notes on DIY Electrostatic Headphones by Chu Moy

when I noticed that the bass got more firm and transients more lifelike when I sandwiched the pair of drivers

One may have theories and thinking capacity, but the only way to really
find out how things work in reality is to do experiments and do experiments and do experiments....

There are also some interesting patents: Electrostatic transducer assembly - Google Patent Search
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