Hi Matt,
The treble was more extended.
I am trying 3 microns Mylar this time. I use about 2 kg. of force for stretching the film. The tension was much greater than the 0.9 micron Mylar I used. This might have helped the treble somewhat. However, I think that the bass is a little less. If I will do it again, I will probably try 1.5-1.8 kg.
The reason why I use 3 microns Mylar and put more tension on the film is that my 0.9 diaphragms always collapse to one side of the stators. I've tried to use hot air to shrink the diaphragms, but it doesn't work.
Wachara C.
The treble was more extended.
I am trying 3 microns Mylar this time. I use about 2 kg. of force for stretching the film. The tension was much greater than the 0.9 micron Mylar I used. This might have helped the treble somewhat. However, I think that the bass is a little less. If I will do it again, I will probably try 1.5-1.8 kg.
The reason why I use 3 microns Mylar and put more tension on the film is that my 0.9 diaphragms always collapse to one side of the stators. I've tried to use hot air to shrink the diaphragms, but it doesn't work.
Wachara C.
Hi Wachara,
That is quite a bit more force than I used on mine, which may account for the lack of extension on the high end. In fact I'm not exactly sure how much force I applied. I just bought some lead weights that looked like a reasonable size to make my tensioning mechanism.
I received my Koss extension cable. The other cable turned out to be a 1/8" stereo plug to two RCA jacks. This was sold to me as a Koss ESP-950 "replacement cable". This is why I hate buying anything over the phone from people who are not knowledgeable about their product. Oh well, the extension cable will work well for our application. It will need to be terminated with the Stax plug of course. It is much nicer quality cable than the ribbon cable I was using previously and is actually rated to withstand the voltage I'm putting through it!
That is quite a bit more force than I used on mine, which may account for the lack of extension on the high end. In fact I'm not exactly sure how much force I applied. I just bought some lead weights that looked like a reasonable size to make my tensioning mechanism.
I received my Koss extension cable. The other cable turned out to be a 1/8" stereo plug to two RCA jacks. This was sold to me as a Koss ESP-950 "replacement cable". This is why I hate buying anything over the phone from people who are not knowledgeable about their product. Oh well, the extension cable will work well for our application. It will need to be terminated with the Stax plug of course. It is much nicer quality cable than the ribbon cable I was using previously and is actually rated to withstand the voltage I'm putting through it!
oh I just noticed there seemed to be segments in the stator instead of a single panel, or is this not new for stax? I have not seen it on any I have tried. i'm actually a little scared by this development, because I have never previously liked the sound enough to consider buying a pair; I have always found them lacking the solid bass I like, but from reports this new model writes this as history. I have always found them nice and fast, perhaps a little airy for my taste, sweet sounding and of course detailed, but lacking slam
a friend of mine in sydney has many stax and he will not be able to resist these, so I will probably get to try them with my friends DIY T2 and KGSS in 6 months at the next meet, but yeah this scares me more than anything $$$$$; at least I can build my own amp.
they are indeed sexy too
a friend of mine in sydney has many stax and he will not be able to resist these, so I will probably get to try them with my friends DIY T2 and KGSS in 6 months at the next meet, but yeah this scares me more than anything $$$$$; at least I can build my own amp.
they are indeed sexy too
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Hi Gusp,
Segmentation on electrostatic speakers are meant to segregate different frequencies on different diaphragm sections. Being so close to your ears, I doubt that segmentation will actually help at all. Well, it's really not that difficult to try. If I have the time to cut new stators, I will try that.
Stax headphones are very nice. But their prices are very $$$$$$$. I would prefer to build them myself. To me, the sound quality isn't that much different.
Wachara C.
Segmentation on electrostatic speakers are meant to segregate different frequencies on different diaphragm sections. Being so close to your ears, I doubt that segmentation will actually help at all. Well, it's really not that difficult to try. If I have the time to cut new stators, I will try that.
Stax headphones are very nice. But their prices are very $$$$$$$. I would prefer to build them myself. To me, the sound quality isn't that much different.
Wachara C.
When I read this: New listening impressions of Stax C32 prototype!
it strikes me that maybe the C32 is a double membrane, three stator design?
it strikes me that maybe the C32 is a double membrane, three stator design?
Hi,
I understood it that the membrane is a 3-layer sandwich, assumable two films with a conductive layer sandwiched in between. This could improve bass-response slightly and flashover safety margin considerably. Also the sensitivity of the conductive layer against environmental stress like hunidity is largly reduced.
You just need a method to bond all 3 layers together so that the sandwich is longtime stable.
jauu
Calvin
I understood it that the membrane is a 3-layer sandwich, assumable two films with a conductive layer sandwiched in between. This could improve bass-response slightly and flashover safety margin considerably. Also the sensitivity of the conductive layer against environmental stress like hunidity is largly reduced.
You just need a method to bond all 3 layers together so that the sandwich is longtime stable.
jauu
Calvin
Hi Matt,
I don't think that's it. It's more like putting 2 sets of ES drivers together. Something like this - stator, spacer, diaphragm, spacer, stator, stator, spacer, diaphragm, spacer, and stator. The two stators in the middle need to be of different charges - one plus and the other minus. I think these two stators can be replaced easily with a double sided PCB.
Do you think that this is worth exploring?
Wachara C.
I don't think that's it. It's more like putting 2 sets of ES drivers together. Something like this - stator, spacer, diaphragm, spacer, stator, stator, spacer, diaphragm, spacer, and stator. The two stators in the middle need to be of different charges - one plus and the other minus. I think these two stators can be replaced easily with a double sided PCB.
Do you think that this is worth exploring?
Wachara C.
Quote from the document:
"1. Frequency extension: bass is much firmer and goes lower. Overall, the C32 is much more natural / realistic sounding in comparison to 007A.
3. Transients and impact: the 007A simply sounds slow in comparison to C32"
This was the reason for thinking it was a double membrane design, as experiments I did ten years ago with a double membrane Ear speaker showed exactly these improvements.
But I don't know for sure, the improvements can be from other reasons. Maybe Stax have optimized size and shape of the hole-free area at the perimeter edge of the stator?
"1. Frequency extension: bass is much firmer and goes lower. Overall, the C32 is much more natural / realistic sounding in comparison to 007A.
3. Transients and impact: the 007A simply sounds slow in comparison to C32"
This was the reason for thinking it was a double membrane design, as experiments I did ten years ago with a double membrane Ear speaker showed exactly these improvements.
But I don't know for sure, the improvements can be from other reasons. Maybe Stax have optimized size and shape of the hole-free area at the perimeter edge of the stator?
The ear speakers I built years ago had this config: Outside stator connected to ground, then membrane with positive bias, then middle stator connected to drive transformer, then membrane with negative bias, and closest to the ear, stator connected to ground. Safe and sound! Stators were made of pertinax if I remember correctly.
Hi,
while double diaphragm systems indeed may make a sense in LS-panels I can´t think of a good reason to do the same in HPs. A double membrane adds volume in a restricted frequency range and counters to a degree the SPL loss due to the acoustic phase cancellation. This is not needed if apc doesn´t apply as it is the case if the membrane is positioned in close proximity to the ear.
The fabrication process of a double-membrane ESL is much more demanding, regardless if it is a 2-stator or 3-stator design. The precision needed for a HP-capsule would be extreme and as such cost would increase by much.
I also can´t find anywhere any hint to a double membrane/3-stator design.
A layered sandwich-membrane on the other hand makes a difference.
In Tokyo - Fall 2010 headphone festival - Head-Fi.org Community Mr Arnaud says:
Bonding the films with a kind of spray adhesive of uncertain properties will very probabely either not work at all or not work long time stable.
The adhesive needs certain conductive properties and certain mechanical properties, among these bonding strength/stickyness, flexibility and resistance against constant shear and wear, low weight and low film thickness, etc. etc. I´d assume a form of a nano-laquer as possible solution.
jauu
Calvin
while double diaphragm systems indeed may make a sense in LS-panels I can´t think of a good reason to do the same in HPs. A double membrane adds volume in a restricted frequency range and counters to a degree the SPL loss due to the acoustic phase cancellation. This is not needed if apc doesn´t apply as it is the case if the membrane is positioned in close proximity to the ear.
The fabrication process of a double-membrane ESL is much more demanding, regardless if it is a 2-stator or 3-stator design. The precision needed for a HP-capsule would be extreme and as such cost would increase by much.
I also can´t find anywhere any hint to a double membrane/3-stator design.
A layered sandwich-membrane on the other hand makes a difference.
In Tokyo - Fall 2010 headphone festival - Head-Fi.org Community Mr Arnaud says:
This clearly indicates a 3-layer sandwich-membrane to me. I assume, that the two outer layers are made from a plastic-film like PET and the inner layer is a material with sticky as well as slightly conductive properties, maybe a kind of doped adhesive. Alternatively there may be just one base film like PET and the third layer may be a protective layer formed of a polymere or a nano-laquer.
Bonding the films with a kind of spray adhesive of uncertain properties will very probabely either not work at all or not work long time stable.
The adhesive needs certain conductive properties and certain mechanical properties, among these bonding strength/stickyness, flexibility and resistance against constant shear and wear, low weight and low film thickness, etc. etc. I´d assume a form of a nano-laquer as possible solution.
jauu
Calvin
I was experimenting with Headphones from an article in Wireless World,
November 1971, similar to this:
HeadWize - Project: Notes on DIY Electrostatic Headphones by Chu Moy
when I noticed that the bass got more firm and transients more lifelike when I sandwiched the pair of drivers
One may have theories and thinking capacity, but the only way to really
find out how things work in reality is to do experiments and do experiments and do experiments....
There are also some interesting patents: Electrostatic transducer assembly - Google Patent Search
November 1971, similar to this:
HeadWize - Project: Notes on DIY Electrostatic Headphones by Chu Moy
when I noticed that the bass got more firm and transients more lifelike when I sandwiched the pair of drivers
One may have theories and thinking capacity, but the only way to really
find out how things work in reality is to do experiments and do experiments and do experiments....
There are also some interesting patents: Electrostatic transducer assembly - Google Patent Search
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