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Old 14th January 2007, 07:23 PM   #521
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Hi Paul!
Thanks for your reply. I think you're right, but there are more people using filmcaps as couplingcaps for the P1.7. So I thought, I wanne give it a try, and you know it sounds absolutely fabulous. Much better as my modified sl10 from Threshold. I put all over Elna Silmics on that pcb of the sl10.
Also the roederstein MKP1837 10nf for bypassing did something very good in my P1.7.
Tony Gee is a very respected guy in the Netherlands, measuring and hearing what he does, and because of my curiousity I tried also some of that things he does. With very good results
And you know: Hearing is believing. Mojo Teake
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Old 14th January 2007, 08:39 PM   #522
mach.88 is offline mach.88  Germany
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Hey guys,

once again we have come back to the coupling-cap issue...

Paul I am very curious how you will like the BGs...

To my experience, cicuits with a rather high DC-offset at the output react very favourable to electrolytic caps in the signal path. By the way, without mystifying Wayne´s ears, but at Pass Labs they must have made a similar experience as I had.

On the output of the mc-stage of the X-Ono, electroytic caps have taken over the 10uFs´place (where offset is rather high) compared to the output of the preamp where MKPs have prevailed.

After building a couple of Veterans clone, I have come to the conclusion, that I like the Black Gate caps better. An opinion that I share with a couple of friends who have taken over the exess preamps, but of course, a very arguable opinion... ;-)

Cheers

Chris
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Old 14th January 2007, 09:00 PM   #523
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Teake,

I agree 110% hearing is believing and I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical about electrolytics myself but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. I don't think there is any fundamental disagreement between the two tests, although the ecp.com tests are aimed more at the budget – and perhaps space conscious –*end of the spectrum.

I did find from my personal – very limited and possibly flawed – listening tests that the difference between the same component connected inline with interconnect and in the circuit is quite significant. For this reason I'm cautious about directly applying Tony Gee's findings regardless of his guru status. I do agree that the MPK1830/7's make a worthwhile improvement.

The ecp.cc tests have a few combinations that look interesting - the bypassed Solen seems to have the edge on the BG N, and Nichicon Muse seems to be on a par with the BG and is clearly ahead when bypassed.

There are a couple of common caps on the two tests, so despite the two different scoring scales you can make some sense of relative ranking.

cheers
Paul
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Old 14th January 2007, 09:10 PM   #524
mach.88 is offline mach.88  Germany
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.. I am still waiting for the Muse to drop in ;-) but as soon as they are here I´ll give them a thorough listen.

Burn the caps in! This is very important as they tend to change considerably over the first 100 to 150 hours (a noise generator or the fryrech burn-in is of great help). Only then you will have valuable comparative setups.

I am not the one who wants to run around and advertise someone´s buisness, but Elliot of Sonic Craft.com normally has a good supply of BGs.

Wollenbebers in Germany has the Muse...

Cheers

Chris
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Old 14th January 2007, 09:15 PM   #525
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Hi Chris and Paul!
I did not try the BG's, in the future I certenly will! For now its enough! I got some x ono phonoboards from ralph stens and that will be the next project. Grtz Teake
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Old 14th January 2007, 09:17 PM   #526
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What's so special about the 'muse' chris? Teake
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Old 14th January 2007, 09:21 PM   #527
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Teake,

*snap* I should be getting a set of boards from Ralph this week sometime. A bit pricey compared with some of the offerings on diyaudio but they look extremely well done. Ralph's work is just beautiful and he leaves room for a decent selection of caps.

I've got some BG's coming from partsconnexion, they are a little more expensive but they had some other parts that I needed so that sealed it... they should arrive this week too.

cheers
Paul
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Old 14th January 2007, 09:31 PM   #528
mach.88 is offline mach.88  Germany
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I have heard about the Muse and will definitely give it a chance but don´t know yet id it is worth it...

Ralph Stens´boards are very nicely made. I do have a set of the whereas I still don´t know when I will find the time to build them up but here is a hint of what I experienced on the other X-ONOs i have built.

Try to use the Panasonic ECP type caps as Wayne did. Eliminate the 3 10uF caps in the output and use the trimmers to get rid of the offset. pairing the transistors will keep the offset low but will not eliminate it. With the trimmers and some patience you will get great results. Since I got rid of the output caps, the X-Ono got even better.

Now I will try different electrolytic caps for the output of the mc-stage.

B.t.w., bypassing the BGs did not make things better! save the money and use other caps. The BGs shoult, at least to my experience, be left all by themselves.

Chris
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Old 14th January 2007, 09:42 PM   #529
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Chris,

Did Wayne use ECQP(V) or something else?

cheers
Paul
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Old 15th January 2007, 09:24 AM   #530
mach.88 is offline mach.88  Germany
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Hey Paul,

sorry!!! I left out the Q in the spec.

Darn! If I had known you were working on the ONO as well I would have sent caps and transistors along with the boards...

Chris
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