Black will probably more likely be the color if not silver. I just thought the blue was super cool.
Here's a diagram of how MOV's can be used. Just put them before the Fo-Felix. The inductance of the Fo-Felix will actually help the MOV's work better.
People are using the Fo-Felix inside amps and things as well as in distribution. I'll draft up a MOV board perhaps soon, and/or look at other surge tech that could be used.
First it should be noted that Teflon capacitors anywhere near line voltages will generate 3rd harmonics. That's part of the "magic" from those units. PP caps don't generate anything. So I'd argue the Fo-Felix is a big step up if you aren't into coloration.
I've never liked the sound from Furman. The transformers are small and they make a few (IMO) classic mistakes with their filters. If you want a good transformer unit spend more (a lot) and go with Torus AVR20+. I wouldn't fiddle with the other stuff at all. I'm not even fully convinced that isolation transformers provide sound I like. (I haven't heard a stereo with one that was spot-on yet, but it certainly is possible I just haven't heard the right stereo). The Torus are much larger and the AVR function prevents sag, which otherwise makes the units only really good for TV's, Streamers, and Blu-Ray.
The Fo-Felix is about filtration (and celebration of DIY). It should be no surprise that it appears not to compete with chinese made surge protectors from Furman. Since it does not inherently have surge protection this makes perfect sense. The Furman doesn't offer individual isolation for each socket... not even close. What you get is a tin can with surge protection, and some dishonest noise measurements. It's not hard to tell that their one big CMC and a couple (poorly used IMO) caps couldn't possible filter more than a 25mh Comoco with more capacitance. So how do they get their numbers? They use test simulations that don't act anything like the real world. Most companies do 50-50ohm and that's ridiculous, at best.
Where's Furman showing you their current response or settling time? They're making Surge Protectors that look good in a home theater. We are not competitors. They make money off of tin cans, I make music.
I have to admit that enclosure you found is pretty awesome for DIY. I see no reason why people shouldn't use it. The one I'm going for does 8 outlets instead of 6, it's less bulky looking, and IMO really nice that it doesn't have an LED. I'm having one made up so we'll see what everyone thinks of the aesthetics. (to be honest I'm shocked you found that thing, I've been looking for ages, as have other people, that's the first time seeing it)
PierreQuiRoule
Nice find. I'm not sure how you guys found those... believe me, I've SEARCHED. I don't get it. The front cutout is sorta weird, and I wouldn't really want the inlet to not be on the same side as the sockets, but still pretty nice.
Maybe no one is going to want my enclosure. We'll see. I certainly can't compete with China in the exact same way they do.
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I always plug mine into a 25mh Comoco. At first I was like, maybe the Comoco isn't big enough because some sound isn't as "loud" sounding, but on further listening I realized it was just enoise making parts of the music sound less defined and louder. The richness of the actual music is definitely an improvement with more filtration. You simply learn that some tracks are not as dynamic as maybe you thought, and others are way more dynamic than you thought.
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GB: Round #3; Fo-Felix & GB #1 AC Receptacle Enclosure
Black matches everything.
Can you explain “GDT”?
That’s why I suggested a daughter board. I think it’s wasteful to use in one amp.... especially with how people around here go through amps.
My thought is they are likely doing this because they are then plugging that amp with the Fo-Felix into their existing power conditioner or surge protector unit.
That’s where my thinking personally went.
BC do you really want to plug in the stuff you toiled over making with zero surge protection? That’s bananas in my book.
I’d use a different, less savory word than magic.
I’d argue that means it’s an awful and unfair comparison which is beneath you.
“Look at how much better this sensible design is than this overpriced two outlet Teflon stuffed 3rd harmonic distortion generator sold by the delusional to rob from the gullible.”
There’s plenty of other examples.
I invite you to find a better example which to you gives great performance at great value.
Let me note you just complimented my suggested Chinese case, as well as the BOM chokes, capacitors, resistors are Chinese. And even perhaps the PCBs? The hookup wire and sockets will likely be Chinese. Not sure of your pcb source.
The only thing definitely not Chinese is (many of) us and our labor and that’s not incorporated into a cost comparison.
With all due respect to the Chinese at diyaudio, of course.
Again I’d argue the $1,600 Teflon unit is orders of magnitude more dishonest.
As far as Furman Tbh this doesn’t look like a tin can to me.
Certainly more value id argue than your suggestion.
To be clear I’m not intimately familiar with the 20i or 15i I honestly was just trying to drive home a concept rather than dissect an example.
Again, Furman was just an example. The Yulong Sabre P18 is another low cost example. Looks like it’s closer to your conception.
However please choose your own example of course, what I meant was why not take the opportunity to make a fair comparison against something you feel is a good value rather than take a cheap shot at a $1,600 snake oil rip.
Was in the first page or so of “PSU Aluminum Chassis” search term on eBay.
The power readout is nice as well. Would be nicer if it was dimmer and not red.
......
Anyhow let me be clear I wasn’t trying to **** on your parade. I think your AC filter is great.
I know you can’t compete with China for manufacturing. I don’t expect that. $200 isn’t a killer for me compared to $100, but it starts the descent into “hesitation mode” when it’s purpose limited and I will need to plug it into YET ANOTHER BOX or surge protection unit to keep my gear safe.
The diyaudio store has some nice options and you could just do a front and back panel. Makes life really easy for people all over the world to source it.
Does your pcb fit their chassis baseplate guidelines?
Either way I’m not against the chassis. What I mean is that I think it would be wise to come closer to justifying the outlay in cost with additional functionality or else it may make many pause and reconsider. I don’t think many will bite without More to offer.
I also don’t think it would be “hard” to incorporate some of them. It multiplies the incentive.
I was trying to increase the reach of your creation, and increase the group buy count.
Keep in mind I was the guy who first SUGGESTED the case in the last group buy thread, although admittedly I was thinking front panel express layouts for hifi2000 not fully assembled units due to shipping considerations making it impractical.
So, I’m on your side. I just think you can do one better ;-)
Black matches everything.
Can you explain “GDT”?
That’s why I suggested a daughter board. I think it’s wasteful to use in one amp.... especially with how people around here go through amps.
My thought is they are likely doing this because they are then plugging that amp with the Fo-Felix into their existing power conditioner or surge protector unit.
That’s where my thinking personally went.
BC do you really want to plug in the stuff you toiled over making with zero surge protection? That’s bananas in my book.
I’d use a different, less savory word than magic.
I’d argue that means it’s an awful and unfair comparison which is beneath you.
“Look at how much better this sensible design is than this overpriced two outlet Teflon stuffed 3rd harmonic distortion generator sold by the delusional to rob from the gullible.”
There’s plenty of other examples.
I invite you to find a better example which to you gives great performance at great value.
Let me note you just complimented my suggested Chinese case, as well as the BOM chokes, capacitors, resistors are Chinese. And even perhaps the PCBs? The hookup wire and sockets will likely be Chinese. Not sure of your pcb source.
The only thing definitely not Chinese is (many of) us and our labor and that’s not incorporated into a cost comparison.
With all due respect to the Chinese at diyaudio, of course.
Again I’d argue the $1,600 Teflon unit is orders of magnitude more dishonest.
As far as Furman Tbh this doesn’t look like a tin can to me.
Certainly more value id argue than your suggestion.
To be clear I’m not intimately familiar with the 20i or 15i I honestly was just trying to drive home a concept rather than dissect an example.
Again, Furman was just an example. The Yulong Sabre P18 is another low cost example. Looks like it’s closer to your conception.
However please choose your own example of course, what I meant was why not take the opportunity to make a fair comparison against something you feel is a good value rather than take a cheap shot at a $1,600 snake oil rip.
Was in the first page or so of “PSU Aluminum Chassis” search term on eBay.
The power readout is nice as well. Would be nicer if it was dimmer and not red.
......
Anyhow let me be clear I wasn’t trying to **** on your parade. I think your AC filter is great.
I know you can’t compete with China for manufacturing. I don’t expect that. $200 isn’t a killer for me compared to $100, but it starts the descent into “hesitation mode” when it’s purpose limited and I will need to plug it into YET ANOTHER BOX or surge protection unit to keep my gear safe.
The diyaudio store has some nice options and you could just do a front and back panel. Makes life really easy for people all over the world to source it.
Does your pcb fit their chassis baseplate guidelines?
Either way I’m not against the chassis. What I mean is that I think it would be wise to come closer to justifying the outlay in cost with additional functionality or else it may make many pause and reconsider. I don’t think many will bite without More to offer.
I also don’t think it would be “hard” to incorporate some of them. It multiplies the incentive.
I was trying to increase the reach of your creation, and increase the group buy count.
Keep in mind I was the guy who first SUGGESTED the case in the last group buy thread, although admittedly I was thinking front panel express layouts for hifi2000 not fully assembled units due to shipping considerations making it impractical.
So, I’m on your side. I just think you can do one better ;-)
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Perhaps I should just coming up with DIY projects all together?
GDT is gas discharge tube.
You could plug the Fo-Felix into a "brickwall" or "surgex" but you'll reduce dynamics some most likely. Many may like the more refined sense of it however. They are the best surge protection there is, but are better for sources than amps, and really best for video, computer, and such.
My tin can comment is geared towards the inexpensive 15ti unit you mentioned. But the Yulong Sabre P18 is basically the same thing but with presumably worse surge protection. From what I can see it has some choices I would not make, and not great surge protection. The problem with MOV's is they are very limited. That's why people use several in parallel (and I probably will to). So you pretty much need something else to help take on the load. GDT works because they are slower but can pass and clamp extensively higher amounts.
The Furman's pro line that's AR spec'd does voltage regulation but only has a single CMC and some caps for all the sockets.
The Furman reference line has large transformers but zero voltage regulation so they can sag extensively easier than Torus models.
You would need to combine a $1300 and $2500 Furman into a Frankenstein setup to equal one Torus. And you still wouldn't get isolation between your equipment.
While I don't recommend teflon capacitors on line voltages, I won't deny some people are very happy with their teflon capacitor based conditioners. If they want them, that's fine, I'm just not going to lie and say they don't offer a form of coloration. I have no problem with Audience Adept as people or a company, I'm just... honest to a fault about some things. Maybe I should shut up, because I don't have ill feelings towards companies no matter how silly their marketing lingo may be - well, mostly, most companies are just answering demands.
So I continue to think the Fo-Felix is a bargain for anyone willing to DIY. I think it's a bargain compared to the Yulong as well, which was like $500-600, offering marginal surge protection, and a so-so filter.
I didn't think to search "PSU" but rather things like AC distribution, power strip, etc.
It might be possible for me to do a plate for a DIYstore enclosure, but I kind of feel like, why bother? It seems like a convoluted way to go about to me. Maybe you haven't noticed but I try to make things rather pleasurable, provide some good documentation, and answer lots of questions. I think of my DIY projects as being slightly on a luxury side of DIY. They are kept fairly simple, (hopefully) some what elegant, to encourage DIY participation. But above all they all exist to sound really good so that the DIY effort exudes a lot of value in labor. I think the Yulong shows that even a simple filter can cost $500-600, but your labor can achieve something better in sound for sub $100 or so.
P.S. I have numerous guys from China that order PCB's. They're great dudes. They appreciate ordering from Mouser and/or whatever channels I use to get strictly official, passed tests, parts, and PCBs. It's horribly ironic that sourcing things from china in different ways can give such drastically different results.
GDT is gas discharge tube.
You could plug the Fo-Felix into a "brickwall" or "surgex" but you'll reduce dynamics some most likely. Many may like the more refined sense of it however. They are the best surge protection there is, but are better for sources than amps, and really best for video, computer, and such.
My tin can comment is geared towards the inexpensive 15ti unit you mentioned. But the Yulong Sabre P18 is basically the same thing but with presumably worse surge protection. From what I can see it has some choices I would not make, and not great surge protection. The problem with MOV's is they are very limited. That's why people use several in parallel (and I probably will to). So you pretty much need something else to help take on the load. GDT works because they are slower but can pass and clamp extensively higher amounts.
The Furman's pro line that's AR spec'd does voltage regulation but only has a single CMC and some caps for all the sockets.
The Furman reference line has large transformers but zero voltage regulation so they can sag extensively easier than Torus models.
You would need to combine a $1300 and $2500 Furman into a Frankenstein setup to equal one Torus. And you still wouldn't get isolation between your equipment.
While I don't recommend teflon capacitors on line voltages, I won't deny some people are very happy with their teflon capacitor based conditioners. If they want them, that's fine, I'm just not going to lie and say they don't offer a form of coloration. I have no problem with Audience Adept as people or a company, I'm just... honest to a fault about some things. Maybe I should shut up, because I don't have ill feelings towards companies no matter how silly their marketing lingo may be - well, mostly, most companies are just answering demands.
So I continue to think the Fo-Felix is a bargain for anyone willing to DIY. I think it's a bargain compared to the Yulong as well, which was like $500-600, offering marginal surge protection, and a so-so filter.
I didn't think to search "PSU" but rather things like AC distribution, power strip, etc.
It might be possible for me to do a plate for a DIYstore enclosure, but I kind of feel like, why bother? It seems like a convoluted way to go about to me. Maybe you haven't noticed but I try to make things rather pleasurable, provide some good documentation, and answer lots of questions. I think of my DIY projects as being slightly on a luxury side of DIY. They are kept fairly simple, (hopefully) some what elegant, to encourage DIY participation. But above all they all exist to sound really good so that the DIY effort exudes a lot of value in labor. I think the Yulong shows that even a simple filter can cost $500-600, but your labor can achieve something better in sound for sub $100 or so.
P.S. I have numerous guys from China that order PCB's. They're great dudes. They appreciate ordering from Mouser and/or whatever channels I use to get strictly official, passed tests, parts, and PCBs. It's horribly ironic that sourcing things from china in different ways can give such drastically different results.
GB: Round #3; Fo-Felix & GB #1 AC Receptacle Enclosure
I don’t want to compare devices at all, but rather features.
Please choose your own example as I said.
Simply put:
For $500 outlay I think people would want to integrate surge suppression and possibly some other features.
Especially if the felix box may replace an existing unit with those safety features.
Many who may not be as technically savvy as yourself tend to assume such features would be contained in a power distribution unit such as what you suggested.
They may not have the ability to integrate said features themselves with much confidence.
I saw a lukewarm response to #3 and was trying to offer a helpful suggestion as to perhaps why.
I have different views on the panels I suppose.
I definitely do not share your acceptance of suspect marketing tactics. I find that deplorable.
I don’t want to compare devices at all, but rather features.
Please choose your own example as I said.
Simply put:
For $500 outlay I think people would want to integrate surge suppression and possibly some other features.
Especially if the felix box may replace an existing unit with those safety features.
Many who may not be as technically savvy as yourself tend to assume such features would be contained in a power distribution unit such as what you suggested.
They may not have the ability to integrate said features themselves with much confidence.
I saw a lukewarm response to #3 and was trying to offer a helpful suggestion as to perhaps why.
I have different views on the panels I suppose.
I definitely do not share your acceptance of suspect marketing tactics. I find that deplorable.
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GB #3 has gone well, the enclosure people just aren't sure about.
Marketing... it's what it is. It fills expectations. When I find it offensive is when it isn't a heavily coded way of saying something true, but an utter astounding lie.
I'm looking at protection setup. It is interesting choosing MOV's knowing they have a limited life span, but do work - anything that last forever has a sonic drawback. There are high quality surge suppressors you can mount at your breaker box. I think those are a decent level of defense.
Marketing... it's what it is. It fills expectations. When I find it offensive is when it isn't a heavily coded way of saying something true, but an utter astounding lie.
I'm looking at protection setup. It is interesting choosing MOV's knowing they have a limited life span, but do work - anything that last forever has a sonic drawback. There are high quality surge suppressors you can mount at your breaker box. I think those are a decent level of defense.
GB: Round #3; Fo-Felix & GB #1 AC Receptacle Enclosure
Yes I was referring to GB #3-#1 I suppose.
Anyhow replacing an MOV is easier than replacing an amplifier.
You could use multiple sets.
An LED would inform the user that replacement is required.
A identifier on the panel for a given Led could correlate with its label on the pcb silkscreen.
Ive seen similar implementations.
On another note this fellow built this for ~400 apparently:
Power Distribution, Sequencing, and Filtering Project
Similarly I intend to integrate filtering, surge protection and remote on/off or on/off triggering based on preamp signal.
Without it everything tends to stay much more than is required, which I find wasteful and unnecessary.
Voltage readout and staggered turn on to avoid potentially speaker damaging pops when pre/power is turned on simultaneously are also planned.
Yes I was referring to GB #3-#1 I suppose.
Anyhow replacing an MOV is easier than replacing an amplifier.
You could use multiple sets.
An LED would inform the user that replacement is required.
A identifier on the panel for a given Led could correlate with its label on the pcb silkscreen.
Ive seen similar implementations.
On another note this fellow built this for ~400 apparently:
Power Distribution, Sequencing, and Filtering Project
Similarly I intend to integrate filtering, surge protection and remote on/off or on/off triggering based on preamp signal.
Without it everything tends to stay much more than is required, which I find wasteful and unnecessary.
Voltage readout and staggered turn on to avoid potentially speaker damaging pops when pre/power is turned on simultaneously are also planned.
Hey guys,
Check these out for surge protection. They are made from MOV’s and avalanche diode’s, they are plugged in on the same AC line circuit as your audio system. When protection is needed, a short-circuit is created causing your breaker to trip cutting the power to anything on that circuit. The benefit is that none of your audio equipment has to actually “see” the MOV’s in their power path.
Yalu Bulala
Check these out for surge protection. They are made from MOV’s and avalanche diode’s, they are plugged in on the same AC line circuit as your audio system. When protection is needed, a short-circuit is created causing your breaker to trip cutting the power to anything on that circuit. The benefit is that none of your audio equipment has to actually “see” the MOV’s in their power path.
Yalu Bulala
I appreciate the link but why not create pluggable MOVs that go into a socket or attach to a keystone post in the unit?
According to Destroyer, the MOVs are a good thing before the Fo-Felix
Seems like a design for the diy-adverse.
Varistors are ~$1.
These are $55 for 3 and you have to toss the plug when it’s done.
According to Destroyer, the MOVs are a good thing before the Fo-Felix
Seems like a design for the diy-adverse.
Varistors are ~$1.
These are $55 for 3 and you have to toss the plug when it’s done.
MOV's are slightly more effective before the filter. It's not a huge deal.
Again, I said I'm looking into it. This is DIY, so I expect to see many different approaches. Even if I make something, people always do all sorts of stuff on their own. I have a PSU for my amp but I see lots of independent PSU uses with it too.
drpro, that looks really nice! The Fo-Felix should help it to sound really good, not just keep audible (a)noise out. Most enoise tends abberate the music more than produce independent artifacts.
Again, I said I'm looking into it. This is DIY, so I expect to see many different approaches. Even if I make something, people always do all sorts of stuff on their own. I have a PSU for my amp but I see lots of independent PSU uses with it too.
drpro, that looks really nice! The Fo-Felix should help it to sound really good, not just keep audible (a)noise out. Most enoise tends abberate the music more than produce independent artifacts.
The onboard fuse isn't necessary when using the CMC that can handle 15A+, exceeding the wall socket amount. For that reason on the PCB the Bourn holes do not need a bypass either, just solder in without fuse holders and go.
If you put the Fo-Felix in a device you can choose your own fuse/breaker schema off board that fits the device. If it's in a standalone enclosure it could be nothing more than a powercord without a fuse.
If you put the Fo-Felix in a device you can choose your own fuse/breaker schema off board that fits the device. If it's in a standalone enclosure it could be nothing more than a powercord without a fuse.
I have some minorly bad news. The Weco connectors are out till 9th of September. The distributor was stocking them more, but I believe I drained them... So it'll be a few extra weeks.
Right now I'm looking to source more but haven't found any. It is possible to go with something else, but really I haven't seen anything else nearly as good.
Right now I'm looking to source more but haven't found any. It is possible to go with something else, but really I haven't seen anything else nearly as good.
I would like something else...
Hi,
I would like to finish my build during summer holidays so if there is a substitute, albeit being not as good as the Weco, I would like to obtain the boards as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Jorge
Hi,
I would like to finish my build during summer holidays so if there is a substitute, albeit being not as good as the Weco, I would like to obtain the boards as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Jorge
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