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Old 13th February 2013, 08:26 AM   #371
DQ828 is offline DQ828  Australia
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Originally Posted by hochopeper View Post
If you chose to only build one of the re-clocker boards then you could probably adapt the second board as a general purpose isolator and not populate any of the re-clocking parts just the isol and its power supplies.
I thought I would just try the Potato section to see how it goes.

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If I get a chance later I'll work out exactly how this should work but at a glance the Si8605 pin out should be ok to drop into this board without too much hassle.
That would be GREAT

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Are you talking about using that instead of the onboard ADP150 or in addition to the ADP150? I think you might find it'd be overkill to use it as well as the ADP150 and unless you're careful with how you wire it up might not be an advantage to use it instead of the onboard LDO (if you run the wires a long way they may pick up more radiated noise than the better regulator might buy you, for example).
As I was only going to use the Potato section it doesn't have a regulator on board so the regulator was necessary.

Thanks guys

PS: I'm still a little confused on exactly how the Dual board works & why you would want the two halves in one installation?
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Old 13th February 2013, 09:08 AM   #372
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PS: I'm still a little confused on exactly how the Dual board works & why you would want the two halves in one installation?
The purpose of the dual board is just to give you an opportunity to trial both types of flip flops in circuits/pcbs that are optimised for each. A lot of people have trialed the flip flops in point to point/adapter pcbs and similar to just see how it goes. Unfortunately the faster switching speeds means that the signal integrity is compromised unless the circuit board is designed for HF content. Think of a square wave as a sum of a series of sine waves, the faster the rising edge the higher frequency sine wave is needed to approximate the square wave. This is exactly why people will say that the tr (rise time) of a signal is the deciding factor for whether a circuit is 'high speed' or not.

In short, some previous tests comparing flip flop types were hamstrung and not exactly fair. In other cases the board that the i2s signal is destined for is not designed to manage a fast signal that the potato FF will produce so it may in those cases be a better end result with the 'slower' FF.



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That would be GREAT



As I was only going to use the Potato section it doesn't have a regulator on board so the regulator was necessary.

Thanks guys
In that case we're in business

Actually, the Potato section did end up withe a regulator, Acko mentioned at one stage that he considered leaving it out, but U12 is a reg in the final BOM.


From the info that we have, I think that the Si8605 can be mounted on the S01 pcb and used to isolate the i2c between arduino/microcontroller and DAC. This would apply equally for people using say Acko's AKC12 or any other i2c/serial microcontroller.

From a look at the datasheet and the component layout what I think you'll need to do is:

- connect 3.3V and ground from the arduino to the amanero pin header area
- connect SDA and SCL to MCK and DATA positions on the amanero pin header area
- connect 5V or 3.3V from DAC to the similarly labeled headers on the isolator board (J1 or J3 respectively) 5V would probably be my preference, from the Placid HD that you're using as pre-reg for your DAC.
- connect SDA and SCL to i2c pin header from outputs labeled MCK and DATA (just be consistent with the connections you made on the input)
- only mount decoupling, FB filtering etc for the U1 and U7 positions. C1, C4, C13, C14, C15 and a few other positions look like the parts you'll be mounting. When the boards are ready Acko will provide subscribers with a schematic I believe so it will be more obvious then.
- the DAC side of the isolator will probably need pull up resistors. In this case a ~20k resistor between 3.3V regulated output and these output pins will be needed. Can probably try to squeeze a few through hole resistors in between 3.3V available on J3 and those two outputs

NB. Can anyone confirm if the BIIISE needs pull up resistors for its i2c input? I haven't used one or read up on it to confirm, more than likely this is the case though I believe.


There may even be a bi-directional isol that fits on the SOIC8 position instead of the SOIC16-W position that I'm suggesting for the Si8605. I haven't got a part number for that off the top of my head. In that case all that would change is to use DSDOE and MUTE instead of DATA and MCLK.


Clear as mud?
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Old 13th February 2013, 09:21 AM   #373
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hochopeper

WOW thats excellent & so fast, thank you, I have saved the info in my spreadsheet for when the board & bits arrive, I started the spreadsheet as with my crappy memory I could never remember where bits of information where posted and could never find them again.

I am using a I2C Level convertor from I2C Level Converter & they say with there level converter "No need for external pullup resistors" I dont know if this answers your Pull Up resistor question thought. I assume I put the isolator on the BIII SE side of the level converter?
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Old 13th February 2013, 09:31 AM   #374
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No worries mate I was actually looking at iancanada's general purpose isolator just last night so basically it is an adaptation of his circuit and the Si8605 datasheet to suit this PCB. But I did have the datasheets open and had been thinking about these things recently enough that I could do it mostly from memory!


Well, yes, I had forgotten the whole 5V Arduino thing, I had been looking at 3.3V arduino's last time I looked at them so hadn't caught on to the fact that your arduino had 5V TTL logic outputs. With the isolator you won't need that level convert at all. Connect 5V from arduino to the 3.3V on the amanero header positions on the S01 and just connect direct from the arduino to the S01 board and you'll be away. The isolator will do the level conversion for you as a secondary benefit of its isolation!

Instead of tracking things in a spreadsheet I use evernote and its browser plugin to clip forum posts and interesting web tutorials. I can tag them and search them all later, including searching text in images! Since all those notes are stored online I can also uses it to save articles to read over lunch at work The only thing it doesn't do particularly well is saving images attached to forum posts, but they can be downloaded and added to the same note by hand without too much hassle.


EDIT: I am pretty certain that you'll need the pull up resistors still, they may be internal to the level converter chip but they aren't in the isol chip so basically they're either on the BIIISE board or you need to use them on this board.
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Last edited by hochopeper; 13th February 2013 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 13th February 2013, 10:09 AM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hochopeper View Post
No worries mate I was actually looking at iancanada's general purpose isolator just last night so basically it is an adaptation of his circuit and the Si8605 datasheet to suit this PCB. But I did have the datasheets open and had been thinking about these things recently enough that I could do it mostly from memory!


Well, yes, I had forgotten the whole 5V Arduino thing, I had been looking at 3.3V arduino's last time I looked at them so hadn't caught on to the fact that your arduino had 5V TTL logic outputs. With the isolator you won't need that level convert at all. Connect 5V from arduino to the 3.3V on the amanero header positions on the S01 and just connect direct from the arduino to the S01 board and you'll be away. The isolator will do the level conversion for you as a secondary benefit of its isolation!

Instead of tracking things in a spreadsheet I use evernote and its browser plugin to clip forum posts and interesting web tutorials. I can tag them and search them all later, including searching text in images! Since all those notes are stored online I can also uses it to save articles to read over lunch at work The only thing it doesn't do particularly well is saving images attached to forum posts, but they can be downloaded and added to the same note by hand without too much hassle.


EDIT: I am pretty certain that you'll need the pull up resistors still, they may be internal to the level converter chip but they aren't in the isol chip so basically they're either on the BIIISE board or you need to use them on this board.
Excellent, thank you again

David
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Old 15th February 2013, 09:03 AM   #376
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hochopeper

How does this wiring look? Still working on the rest
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 13-02-15 Isolator Wiring .jpg (364.9 KB, 378 views)
File Type: png 13-02-15 Isolator Wiring 2.png (331.9 KB, 369 views)

Last edited by DQ828; 15th February 2013 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 15th February 2013, 09:09 AM   #377
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At a glance it looks like what I had in mind

I think Acko has provided a through hole on the input to the flip flops and labled each so that you can use the board as just an isolator. The through hole just shows up as a small black dot beside C7 and FB1 and they are labelled with the signal name too.
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Old 15th February 2013, 09:17 AM   #378
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Another option would be Si8600 mounted on U2 position instead of IL711
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Old 15th February 2013, 09:39 AM   #379
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Another option would be Si8600 mounted on U2 position instead of IL711
Yes but whats the best option

thanks
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Old 15th February 2013, 09:52 AM   #380
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Well Si8600 and Si8605 are just the 8pin and 16pin variant of the same chip, so from that perspective, no difference. The cost difference is ... less than $0.50.

The only difference that I can see is the wiring might be a touch neater and less susceptible to picking up radiated noise using the DSDOE and Mute output connections.

There is really nothing at all in it, just another option.

This option might be interesting for people who want to use the Amanero i2c connection for example by not populating the full 2x10pin header to the Amanero and take the signals from the other output pins on the amanero to the appropriate spots on the S01/S02 board. This would enable you to write a computer program for controlling your DAC and still enjoy isolation from computer noise and no need for arduino and extra PSUs. For a computer input only DAC that could be appealing I imagine and would mean it is all on the one PCB. The all on one PCB option isn't possible for you though because you need 5V on one side for the arduino.
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