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Old 17th January 2013, 10:48 PM   #151
deanoUK is offline deanoUK  United Kingdom
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May bee we should room 101 some of this stuff-
How many pico seconds of jitter can we hear ?
Should we be dealing with correctly balanced transmission lines ?
Kirchhoff's law analysis for the "isolation problem" ?
After reading g*d knows how many posts, I am ready to get my iron out and ears in.
Hope we all get there in the end.
Dean.
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Old 17th January 2013, 10:52 PM   #152
deanoUK is offline deanoUK  United Kingdom
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PS. Thanks Ian got all the GB stuff.
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Old 17th January 2013, 10:58 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glt View Post
Aren't we mainly talking about Amanero, Acko reclocking board and either Buffalo or Acko DAC?

I am planning on replacing my reclocker board with this board. What is the specific concern should I have?
I am saying that if you are using lead out wires rather than u.fl or connecting it to a pcb that has not had high speeds considered in the design's i2s/dsd traces you will create noise (radiated and conducted) in your system.

The ebay es9018 PCBs do not suit the potato FF there will be people using these reclocking devices with boards that are not the ESS DACs also. For some DACs that do not support high MCLK freq the layout assumes a slower signal (tr/tf) than is produced by the Potato FF. That is a valid design assumption in those cases but to connect Potato FF to those designs and expect a better because of the faster speeds will be a mistake.

IMO for those PCBs the slower FF will give a better result. The TPA and Acko PCBs are well designed and should suit the faster FF if they are well connected. The speed of the clock is irrelevant when the rise time increases to this level and I would consider a u.fl or w.fl coaxial cable mandatory for a signal with less than 1ns rise time.


In the case that you have radiated noise you will then be relying on the other nearby equipment being immune to the noise produced or to reject the conducted noise which is not good system design IMO. It is better to eliminate the source of noise than to manage/attenuate the noise later.

I was trying to be non-specific because there is more than one reason that a design may be considered unsuitable for high speed signals. For example it may be that the designer does not yet know how to do it well enough or that the designer has made a valid assumption that with a DAC that only supports say 25MHz or 12MHz MCLK there is no need to spend the extra effort in design and cost in manufacture.

To say that the Potato Semi FF will be better in all cases regardless of connected devices would be misleading. The above is exactly why Acko is offering two boards and leaving it to builders to chose which suits their system better.


Cheers,
Chris

Last edited by hochopeper; 17th January 2013 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:10 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanoUK View Post
May bee we should room 101 some of this stuff-
How many pico seconds of jitter can we hear ?
Should we be dealing with correctly balanced transmission lines ?
Kirchhoff's law analysis for the "isolation problem" ?
After reading g*d knows how many posts, I am ready to get my iron out and ears in.
Hope we all get there in the end.
Dean.

To write a 101 on a subject like amount of audible jitter you had better have a industrial flame retardant suit! Have you ever seen a civilised discussion between audiophiles regarding jitter?

The rest is best left to electrical signal specialist as they are purely electrical design aspects, search the internet for details and read textbooks on the matter.

One resource I have found particularly useful is http://www.hottconsultants.com/tips.html

Since I have enjoyed reading his articles I have purchased his ~900 page textbook to learn more than what knowledge he has given away for free on his website.


Cheers,
Chris
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:18 PM   #155
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:25 PM   #156
deanoUK is offline deanoUK  United Kingdom
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Buying some asbestos now (cough)
Head above parapet, will see if I can tell the difference.
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Old 18th January 2013, 12:05 AM   #157
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Quote:
Kirchhoff's law analysis for the "isolation problem" ?
yeah I thought about this too, havent modeled anything, i'm putting my money on heat. depends on the specific type fo isolator too I guess.

I love how the voices of reason (or at least grappling with reason) are the ones being painted as heretics lately in an area that is about as tweakable by ear, as Kimchee is delicious with icecream. perhaps we should just discuss the various flip-flops and their effects on sound-stage, digital glare and the air around instruments?

I thought this was a technical forum

anyway this is best for a new thread, its getting to me though.

Last edited by qusp; 18th January 2013 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 18th January 2013, 12:13 AM   #158
deanoUK is offline deanoUK  United Kingdom
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I thought it was a "sound repoduction forum" ?
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Old 18th January 2013, 12:16 AM   #159
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanoUK View Post
I thought it was a "sound repoduction forum" ?
you can do that with a tape player, or a megaphone

I was lumbering under the impression that we were basing build technique on the best technology appropriate to its part in reproducing music
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Old 18th January 2013, 12:21 AM   #160
deanoUK is offline deanoUK  United Kingdom
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Just trying to move away from a numbers game to a proven better sound.
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