I have been asked about prices and special requests for the case parts options.
Firstly special requests.
We did it once out of good will last time.
And it was a much bigger burden for us than we ever thought.
Making sure the factory knows there are specials,
making sure some boxes are packed differently,
making sure they are marked and sent to the right address, .....
All silly things, but costs us time, and effort that we remember who ordered what ....
So we agreed amongst ourselves no more of this on future batches.
We shall send 30 boxes of parts with exactly the same content.
Everyone gets the same, and we can send any box to anyone.
In fact Mark & I decided to supply the CRegC version only.
Prices are in line with last time.
But since we made a loss, so we need to adjust to make sure we are covered this time.
So here are tentative prices :
Case incl. all heat sinks (CRegC) HKD6200
Complete PCB set HKD800
Complete R set HKD600
Complete FET set HKD2200
PCBs, R set & Q set are optional but can only be ordered with the case.
FETs will be curve tracer matched at operating conditions.
Bank transfer only, and you pay bank transfer fees.
Shipment on top, by Courier, at cost.
Last time it was like HKD900 per case.
(1USD ~ 7.75 HKD, linked)
Patrick
Firstly special requests.
We did it once out of good will last time.
And it was a much bigger burden for us than we ever thought.
Making sure the factory knows there are specials,
making sure some boxes are packed differently,
making sure they are marked and sent to the right address, .....
All silly things, but costs us time, and effort that we remember who ordered what ....
So we agreed amongst ourselves no more of this on future batches.
We shall send 30 boxes of parts with exactly the same content.
Everyone gets the same, and we can send any box to anyone.
In fact Mark & I decided to supply the CRegC version only.
Prices are in line with last time.
But since we made a loss, so we need to adjust to make sure we are covered this time.
So here are tentative prices :
Case incl. all heat sinks (CRegC) HKD6200
Complete PCB set HKD800
Complete R set HKD600
Complete FET set HKD2200
PCBs, R set & Q set are optional but can only be ordered with the case.
FETs will be curve tracer matched at operating conditions.
Bank transfer only, and you pay bank transfer fees.
Shipment on top, by Courier, at cost.
Last time it was like HKD900 per case.
(1USD ~ 7.75 HKD, linked)
Patrick
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Sorry, but I leave this list.
My calculation of costs and delivery have been wrong
1. Xen Audio intern
2. Xen Audio intern
3. Xen Audio intern
4. Pboden
5. syklab
6. bkdog
7. BebopMcJiggy
8. mekanixz
9. mekanixz
10. Dennis Hui
11. RKH
12. neb001
13. matsj
14. potepuh
15. ashaw
16. ashaw
17. ashaw
18. blitzkrieg
My calculation of costs and delivery have been wrong
1. Xen Audio intern
2. Xen Audio intern
3. Xen Audio intern
4. Pboden
5. syklab
6. bkdog
7. BebopMcJiggy
8. mekanixz
9. mekanixz
10. Dennis Hui
11. RKH
12. neb001
13. matsj
14. potepuh
15. ashaw
16. ashaw
17. ashaw
18. blitzkrieg
For the first batch, the price for the case without the major heat sinks (main & regulator) was 360 Euros.
Add those (6 pieces fully machined plus associated mechanical parts) and it came close to 600 Euros
Shipment cost was 80Euro+ for a single case (excluding the said 6 heat sinks).
You can go back to all previous GB threads and add them all up, or ask one of the 1st batch guys like NicMac.
At that time one Euro was approx. 11 HKD.
Yes, we shall support batch 1 for regulator sinks, after smyslow has tested them sonically.
He has already had all the mechanical parts necessarily for his tests.
If you want a simple economical solution, suggest you look at the forum's HiFi2000 cases.
Cheers,
Patrick
PS the Euro is quite miserable at the moment.
Today's rate is 1 Euro = 9.60 HKD. It was 10 HKD a week ago.
Add those (6 pieces fully machined plus associated mechanical parts) and it came close to 600 Euros
Shipment cost was 80Euro+ for a single case (excluding the said 6 heat sinks).
You can go back to all previous GB threads and add them all up, or ask one of the 1st batch guys like NicMac.
At that time one Euro was approx. 11 HKD.
Yes, we shall support batch 1 for regulator sinks, after smyslow has tested them sonically.
He has already had all the mechanical parts necessarily for his tests.
If you want a simple economical solution, suggest you look at the forum's HiFi2000 cases.
Cheers,
Patrick
PS the Euro is quite miserable at the moment.
Today's rate is 1 Euro = 9.60 HKD. It was 10 HKD a week ago.
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Moi aussie..... These prices have nothing to do with what I had heard for the case of the 1st round.
If I add the parts cost then the amount is....... I could buy a ready made amp...
I think with that amount the essence of diy is lost....
I'm not moaning, just my personal opinion.
1. Xen Audio intern
2. Xen Audio intern
3. Xen Audio intern
4. Pboden
5. syklab
6. bkdog
7. BebopMcJiggy
8. Dennis Hui
9. RKH
10. neb001
11. matsj
12. potepuh
13. ashaw
14. ashaw
15. ashaw
16. blitzkrieg
If I add the parts cost then the amount is....... I could buy a ready made amp...
I think with that amount the essence of diy is lost....
I'm not moaning, just my personal opinion.
1. Xen Audio intern
2. Xen Audio intern
3. Xen Audio intern
4. Pboden
5. syklab
6. bkdog
7. BebopMcJiggy
8. Dennis Hui
9. RKH
10. neb001
11. matsj
12. potepuh
13. ashaw
14. ashaw
15. ashaw
16. blitzkrieg
Somehow this does not fit with my memory. As I was (am) part of the Batch 1 group I know more or less what I spend.
Case price?
Batch 2: 6.200HKD (approx. 640 euro)
Batch 1:
Cost (what I have actually paid) for my batch 1 cases:
Case: 360 euro without sinks (+ fees that I don’t recall)
Conrad sinks: 179AUD (about 139 euro, including fees)
Future sinks and mounting extras for regulators 100 euro (included with Batch 2)
Total: 599 euro (+ fees not counted)
Conclusion: considering the fees, currency fluctuation etc., I believe that it is safe to say that the price has not changed significantly.
What about the PCBs?
Batch 2 (all PCBs): 800 HKD (approx. 83 euro)
Cost (what I have actually paid) Batch 1:
Amp PCBs: 80 USD (about 64 euro)
Protection board: 20 euro
Total: 84 euro
Conclusion: same price.
What about the resistors?
Batch 2 (PRP and Fukushima): 600 HKD (approx. 62 euro)
Batch 1:
PRP: NicMac GB: 54 USD (approx. 44 euro)
Fukushima: Horio GB: 15 USD (8x 0R22) (approx. 12 euro)
Total: 56 euro
Conclusion: same price (without having to set up new group buys......)
What about the FETs?
Batch 2: 2200 HKD (approx. 228 euro)
Batch 1:
Matched 2SJ74/2SK170 from Spencer: 18USD (at best…).
4x P-N matched 2SK1530/2SJ201 pairs from Zhou: 96USD* (*now 180USD)
Matched 2SK3497/2SJ618 for regulator: pchw GB: 14USD
Total: 103 euro (*170 euro)
Conclusion: the FET package is significantly more costly.
Could you do it cheaper? Yes – you could get the FETs from Spencer and Zhou. Would the quality obtained this way be equivalent? No.
Both the J74/K17 and J20/K15 are matched in ways not offered by Spencer and Zhou. In particular, the matching of the J20/K15’s will de done under true operating conditions, which is an enormous work. I’m investing quite some time and money to get the same quality for us Batch 1 subscribers, because for us there was no way of getting this quality by paying another 100$.
I don’t think I need to tell you which way I would have gone, if I had had the choice.
If you think the essence of DIY is that it has to be cheap then you are correct: this build is not exactly cheap. However, this build, even if bought as a complete kit, is still very much DIY indeed. You will have to mount, solder, wire, test, bias and all the things you would have to do with any build. Have a look at the links below to convince yourself.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/208880-f5x-euvl-approach-build-thread.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/209678-f5x-case.html
Unless you have a very serious mechanical workshop you cannot DIY this chassis yourself. Impossible. You might get a case from HiFi2000 with custom made back and front panels, mounting hardware, chassis feet’s etc. but you would never even get close and still end up paying 2/3 of the F5X case price.
This build is High-End DIY
Yes – several, but not this amp.
I got two cases in the Batch 1 group buy and I will eventually have two complete amps. Unless I get a bigger house (unlikely) I will have to sell one of them and I already have some very interesting offers from audio friends, unable to DIY, but accustomed to this class of audio gear.
Yes, and this is fine. I’m simply chiming in to clarify that the batch 2 actually has essentially the same price as batch 1, but without all the group buy hassle that us Batch 1 subscribers have suffered over the last year and a half. Don't underestimate this very important advantage of the Batch 2 GB.
If you cannot afford it - you should not buy it (or maybe just 1 in stead of the 2 you were signed up for
). Just don't blame your choice on an untrue increase in price or lack of DIY pleasure.Cheers,
Nic
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with XEN audio or any financial interest in their products. In fact, had the price been significantly higher I might have able to sell my second Batch 1 F5X at an even better price
Nicmac you need to push the brakes!!!
First I really don't believe I have insulted anybody. What's the problem with me pulling out? Has the case been ordered and I didn't pay?No.
Did I insult?No.
I checked in, saw the price and checked out. So what is the problem here?
Like you said the price for the first banch was 360. I was expecting something like that.
It isn't. I pull out.
So, what's the need for this long post?
@EUVL do you feel offended in any way?
Oh and don't forget, I signed up BEFORE the price was announced.
You are trying to say that if for example, I go inside a shop i have to necessarily buy?
Pardon me, but I have the right to "blame your choice on an untrue increase in price or lack of DIY pleasure.". It doesn't affect you in any way.
First I really don't believe I have insulted anybody. What's the problem with me pulling out? Has the case been ordered and I didn't pay?No.
Did I insult?No.
I checked in, saw the price and checked out. So what is the problem here?
Like you said the price for the first banch was 360. I was expecting something like that.
It isn't. I pull out.
So, what's the need for this long post?
@EUVL do you feel offended in any way?
Oh and don't forget, I signed up BEFORE the price was announced.
You are trying to say that if for example, I go inside a shop i have to necessarily buy?
Pardon me, but I have the right to "blame your choice on an untrue increase in price or lack of DIY pleasure.". It doesn't affect you in any way.
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mekanixz,
You did not insult me and I don't think I have insulted you.
I posted before you that I found the price reasonable and your post simply prompted me to substantiate this with actual numbers and my personal comments. My post was not at all meant as an attack on you or anybody else. I would certainly think anybody is free to jump in and out for whatever reason they may have. I was actually hoping that my post would be informative and promote a build that I admittedly like. End of story.
I'm sorry that it has disturbed you.
Nic
You did not insult me and I don't think I have insulted you.
I posted before you that I found the price reasonable and your post simply prompted me to substantiate this with actual numbers and my personal comments. My post was not at all meant as an attack on you or anybody else. I would certainly think anybody is free to jump in and out for whatever reason they may have. I was actually hoping that my post would be informative and promote a build that I admittedly like. End of story.
I'm sorry that it has disturbed you.
Nic
I am glad that you guys have calmed doen before I had a chance to read Nic's post.
It is just DIY. We all want to have fun, and don't want to get at each other.
Thanks to Nic for posting the first batch expenses, showing that we are not over charging by any means for batch 2.
Again please note that the Euro has depreciated over 10% in the meantime.
As to the FETs, Zhou is now charging 180 USD for 8 MOSFETs, single point match at room temperature.
We are offering curve tracer match at operating conditions.
It is the difference between 1 minute per device and 15 minutes per device including data processing.
As I said, the prices are tentative, and will be in line with those of Nic's GB, plus labour.
(We don't have the time and have to pay someone to do the actual matching work.)
Of course all are options. I did not say you have to buy everything from us.
It is a bit of a shame that people appear to have the feeling we are ripping off, when we are just providing a service.
Count CNC milling for 1000 HKD an hour, and you can count how many hours we need to make such a case.
We don't want to make a loss, like Batch 1, but considering the time we have to put in, it will never pay our hours.
When we told Variac of the forum that we would do a Batch 2, he was surprised that we would bother to.
That just gives you an idea how much work there is to organise something like this.
The same amount of work goes for products that some of us manufacture (for a living) that cost over 20k USD a piece.
Patrick
It is just DIY. We all want to have fun, and don't want to get at each other.
Thanks to Nic for posting the first batch expenses, showing that we are not over charging by any means for batch 2.
Again please note that the Euro has depreciated over 10% in the meantime.
As to the FETs, Zhou is now charging 180 USD for 8 MOSFETs, single point match at room temperature.
We are offering curve tracer match at operating conditions.
It is the difference between 1 minute per device and 15 minutes per device including data processing.
As I said, the prices are tentative, and will be in line with those of Nic's GB, plus labour.
(We don't have the time and have to pay someone to do the actual matching work.)
Of course all are options. I did not say you have to buy everything from us.
It is a bit of a shame that people appear to have the feeling we are ripping off, when we are just providing a service.
Count CNC milling for 1000 HKD an hour, and you can count how many hours we need to make such a case.
We don't want to make a loss, like Batch 1, but considering the time we have to put in, it will never pay our hours.
When we told Variac of the forum that we would do a Batch 2, he was surprised that we would bother to.
That just gives you an idea how much work there is to organise something like this.
The same amount of work goes for products that some of us manufacture (for a living) that cost over 20k USD a piece.
Patrick
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