Digikey parts for 40 units...
Unit prices, using the original BOM
ME49990MA-5-ND $3.41; 120 pieces is ~$409
LME49600TS-ND $6.53; 320 pieces is ~$2100
A complete kit, based on 40 units purchased will cost the user "about" $120 + fees.
This could become a significant expenditure of money to obtain significant savings. I will look for suggestions from you to balance the risks and rewards.
Be careful in consideration of swapping a different voltage transformer on-board...the footprint may be different.
Unit prices, using the original BOM
ME49990MA-5-ND $3.41; 120 pieces is ~$409
LME49600TS-ND $6.53; 320 pieces is ~$2100
A complete kit, based on 40 units purchased will cost the user "about" $120 + fees.
This could become a significant expenditure of money to obtain significant savings. I will look for suggestions from you to balance the risks and rewards.
Be careful in consideration of swapping a different voltage transformer on-board...the footprint may be different.
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@ED, those numbers look fantastic!
I wonder if we do it in lots sized for single channel - 8 (buffers) or 3 (opamp) OR we could go for stereo sized lots since everyone has even number of boards ordered.
Stereo sized packs reduce flexibility for anyone wanting extra though. They would however make packing of orders optimal for organisers compared to lots of variation in order sizes, I believe this was your intent with standard lot sizes?
Audio IC's
LME49600
qusp 40
hochopeper 32
LME49990
qusp 20
hochopeper 24
For the purpose of the GB those numbers suit fine.
I wonder if we do it in lots sized for single channel - 8 (buffers) or 3 (opamp) OR we could go for stereo sized lots since everyone has even number of boards ordered.
Stereo sized packs reduce flexibility for anyone wanting extra though. They would however make packing of orders optimal for organisers compared to lots of variation in order sizes, I believe this was your intent with standard lot sizes?
Audio IC's
LME49600
qusp 40
hochopeper 32
LME49990
qusp 20
hochopeper 24
yeah that makes sense i guess. TBH there isnt that many of us in the list, so workload shouldnt be too high. maybe we just make the ICs an open thing, you can get the numbers you like? or specify what a channel kit is and have a separate column for extras?
so an order would look like
for example
IC's
qusp 4 channels
extras 6 x LME49600 and 10 x LME49990
@ Ed: yeah i think the savings will come more for the passives, we will have to watch it though, as most individual orders from digikey would be over the 200usd free shipping amount, so depending on what the regional and local shipping added up to, the digikey may not save a heap. i suggest we make an effort to cost out the bom from the suppliers asap to decide whether its worth pushing forward on that, or whether its just best for the heavier items to be grouped regionally.
does that make more sense?
i think if everything gets pooled and then sent out all together to the regional distributors it will save on shipping then rather than being stung for multiple international shipping fees for heatsinks from Hypertune, transformers if we do that, eichmann connectors, which btw look like this, XLRs, IEC inlets (depending on consensus with the chassis) momentary switches, mounting hardware etc as these will probably be sourced from a few vendors
so an order would look like
for example
IC's
qusp 4 channels
extras 6 x LME49600 and 10 x LME49990
@ Ed: yeah i think the savings will come more for the passives, we will have to watch it though, as most individual orders from digikey would be over the 200usd free shipping amount, so depending on what the regional and local shipping added up to, the digikey may not save a heap. i suggest we make an effort to cost out the bom from the suppliers asap to decide whether its worth pushing forward on that, or whether its just best for the heavier items to be grouped regionally.
does that make more sense?
i think if everything gets pooled and then sent out all together to the regional distributors it will save on shipping then rather than being stung for multiple international shipping fees for heatsinks from Hypertune, transformers if we do that, eichmann connectors, which btw look like this, XLRs, IEC inlets (depending on consensus with the chassis) momentary switches, mounting hardware etc as these will probably be sourced from a few vendors
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ok guys, well i should have my boards sometime next week, SOOooo whats next chaps? i've put together a single BOM for the passives and transformers at DK and a single channel including TX is $94.87 which includes a couple of lines (resistors) that will have enough to cover more than 2 channels due to 10 piece minimum. this also includes the half-brick heatsink in the BOM
I propose these are optional items you can add to the kit as a subsection of the passives GB.
there are only 6 of the TX in stock at DK anyway and not due in till 6/12/2012, so forget that! now ive said that theres probably none left. i was going to contact Richard Sumner about some anyway.
So without the actives, which i will price up separately and actually including the TX and heatsinks for now, we actually get a rather nice saving that i think even the shipping costs for distribution wont come close to covering.
For example 30 channels we get it for total $1,714.89 / 30 = $57.163 a channel, not bad! this actually even includes getting 20 extra 10uf X7R (buffer rail decoupling) and 70 extra 1uf X7R (the part for decoupling the LME49990 rails) because it was actually a couple dollars cheaper to get 250 vs 180 as we breach the next bulk rate, so we would get a couple extra each, or you could donate them all to me =P
The TX is an issue, ive emailed Richard at sumR to see what he can do price wise and with him we could get 16-17vac secondaries to cover that slightly tight margin without adding extra heat. I dont know about you, but i'm not waiting around till June for the TX in the BOM and then paying extra shipping.
i'll price up the actives and have a look at some of the other possible parts, but in the meantime lets get conversation happening again, because opc has shipped the boards!! I wont update the first post with these details just yet, but its looking promising!
i gotta say, the discussion about automation, power cycling, remote and sensing is getting very interesting!
I propose these are optional items you can add to the kit as a subsection of the passives GB.
there are only 6 of the TX in stock at DK anyway and not due in till 6/12/2012, so forget that! now ive said that theres probably none left. i was going to contact Richard Sumner about some anyway.
So without the actives, which i will price up separately and actually including the TX and heatsinks for now, we actually get a rather nice saving that i think even the shipping costs for distribution wont come close to covering.
For example 30 channels we get it for total $1,714.89 / 30 = $57.163 a channel, not bad! this actually even includes getting 20 extra 10uf X7R (buffer rail decoupling) and 70 extra 1uf X7R (the part for decoupling the LME49990 rails) because it was actually a couple dollars cheaper to get 250 vs 180 as we breach the next bulk rate, so we would get a couple extra each, or you could donate them all to me =P
The TX is an issue, ive emailed Richard at sumR to see what he can do price wise and with him we could get 16-17vac secondaries to cover that slightly tight margin without adding extra heat. I dont know about you, but i'm not waiting around till June for the TX in the BOM and then paying extra shipping.
i'll price up the actives and have a look at some of the other possible parts, but in the meantime lets get conversation happening again, because opc has shipped the boards!! I wont update the first post with these details just yet, but its looking promising!
i gotta say, the discussion about automation, power cycling, remote and sensing is getting very interesting!
Hey qusp were those prices you mentioned including the lm or lt regs? Just asking since you recommended the lt in first post ...
Do you buy keratherm from dk as well, I've not gone looking for tim before in these sizes before so just wondering if that's still on the cards for this gb?
Regardless its looking pretty good!
Do you buy keratherm from dk as well, I've not gone looking for tim before in these sizes before so just wondering if that's still on the cards for this gb?
Regardless its looking pretty good!
no, just the standard BOM as i'm not taking any liberties with other peoples orders. there are a few things i will do differently, such as ASMP smd zfoils for the voltage gain stage. The lt1033 is EOL (but the LT1085 is still available there), but you can still get it around the place and ive already got mine =) cant get keratherm at DK, i'll contact the rep, i'll have to figure out exactly what we need. they will come under extras.
i'll perhaps provide an alternative PSU BOM, i dont want to get too bogged down in details just yet. i heard back from Richard at sumR and he can do one that will fit, still PCB mount, but using the oversize cores as he does, the smallest can may not fit on the pcb, so would be without the can, still pcb mount. i'll get a price from him, but is anyone else interested? i dont want to waste his time. it means we can get the slightly higher voltage secondary to give a little bit more leeway for those with not the greatest mains, better thermal performance WRT duty cycle.
i'll contact Eichmann on monday regarding a bulk purchase for the cablepod binding posts, i want to do it legit and make sure i can sell them at a nice discount without breaking my agreement, should be ok given the circumstance as i'm not taking money out of distributors pockets as very few if any of the group would pay full price for them, so they arent losing sales. definitely the best binding post at any price imo, forget the carbon fibre furutech bling
i'll perhaps provide an alternative PSU BOM, i dont want to get too bogged down in details just yet. i heard back from Richard at sumR and he can do one that will fit, still PCB mount, but using the oversize cores as he does, the smallest can may not fit on the pcb, so would be without the can, still pcb mount. i'll get a price from him, but is anyone else interested? i dont want to waste his time. it means we can get the slightly higher voltage secondary to give a little bit more leeway for those with not the greatest mains, better thermal performance WRT duty cycle.
i'll contact Eichmann on monday regarding a bulk purchase for the cablepod binding posts, i want to do it legit and make sure i can sell them at a nice discount without breaking my agreement, should be ok given the circumstance as i'm not taking money out of distributors pockets as very few if any of the group would pay full price for them, so they arent losing sales. definitely the best binding post at any price imo, forget the carbon fibre furutech bling
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yes we can, its a dual primary transformer and thus has 2 x 115vac primaries, for 110-120v countries they run them in parallel, for 220-240v countries we run them in series
but you knew that right?
I prefer not to cut the traces.
ahh, i see what you mean now, well that was a bit of an oversight, the board doesnt have jumpers to choose series or parallel primaries even though it uses a dual primary transformer. well thats going to complicate any GB effort on the transformer. we'll see, i would prefer to not cut traces as well, but if it comes to spending an extra 40 bucks or cutting a trace, i'll cut the trace
ok guys, we really need to start to get moving on this, so far we only have the owners of 24 (22 actually, i asked for 2 extra) of the 44 pcbs out there in the wild interested in heatsinks, i havent combed through for interest in parts. so lets start an interest list for the parts kits too, at the above amount, given at least 30 channels worth of parts ordered the number including the BOM heatsink and transformer is under $100 vs nearly 200 otherwise. we do have a bit of a problem with the transformers that was not accounted for, in that the PCB is not set up for selecting to run the universal voltage primaries in parallel for 110-120v countries, or in series for 220-240v without cutting traces.
so should i remove the TX from the GB, or go ahead and price up getting the 2 different options from sumR i.e. the same transformer with dual or single primary options. oh hang on it wont work with a single 220-240vac primary unit either!! opc mate, what went on there? it looks as though hacking the trace is compulsory, or using a totally custom pinout or not PCB mount transformer.
see here, the primaries are hardwired in parallel and a 240vac primary PCB mount unit will not have the 220-240vac inputs only on one corner.
so lets work out what we are going to do about this issue and then i'll adjust the BOM in 'my digikey' to reflect including the transformer or not. probably it shouldnt be included and should be a separate list, but we need to decide on a course of action. ie are people willing to cut the trace and patch it to allow the 2 x 115v unit to be used in series, or one of the custom or offboard options for those in applicable countries?
hochopeper: i have asked opc for a possible stencil to use for the die cut for a custom keratherm order so its solid like these. we might even in that case go for one of the even higher performance keratherm white, though thats probably overkill.
so should i remove the TX from the GB, or go ahead and price up getting the 2 different options from sumR i.e. the same transformer with dual or single primary options. oh hang on it wont work with a single 220-240vac primary unit either!! opc mate, what went on there? it looks as though hacking the trace is compulsory, or using a totally custom pinout or not PCB mount transformer.
see here, the primaries are hardwired in parallel and a 240vac primary PCB mount unit will not have the 220-240vac inputs only on one corner.
so lets work out what we are going to do about this issue and then i'll adjust the BOM in 'my digikey' to reflect including the transformer or not. probably it shouldnt be included and should be a separate list, but we need to decide on a course of action. ie are people willing to cut the trace and patch it to allow the 2 x 115v unit to be used in series, or one of the custom or offboard options for those in applicable countries?
hochopeper: i have asked opc for a possible stencil to use for the die cut for a custom keratherm order so its solid like these. we might even in that case go for one of the even higher performance keratherm white, though thats probably overkill.
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I had a look around yesterday for a 230/240V primary pcb mount transformer with power rating similar to the one we're after, couldn't find one. The only single primary pcb mount transformers have 115V primary rating. Nevermind the standard pin out. If we higher voltage countries want pcb mounted transformer it is cut the traces, custom transformer or off board transformer.
With that prospect I'm becoming more and more interested in the cost of the SumR option? Is it possible for him to provide something customised and obviate the need to cut traces? Along with the advantage of custom winding ratio and hence improved secondary output the value in this option is increasing imo. I would certainly be interested in seeing the pricing for a 230V primary from SumR.
I can't recall much interest in custom transformer from builders with 115V mains voltage. Speak up soon!
Any discussion on an offboard transformer probably needs to happen before HYPERTUNE finalises any design. I am happy to follow his preference for cutting traces or not since his work on the enclosure design shouldn't be compromised by anyone else's preference but his own.
How much is the keratherm stencil dependent on the enclosure/heatsink? If we're having some heatsinking attached to underside of the board as in some of the suggestions then we'll need whatever TIM we chose to wrap around under the board also won't we?
With that prospect I'm becoming more and more interested in the cost of the SumR option? Is it possible for him to provide something customised and obviate the need to cut traces? Along with the advantage of custom winding ratio and hence improved secondary output the value in this option is increasing imo. I would certainly be interested in seeing the pricing for a 230V primary from SumR.
I can't recall much interest in custom transformer from builders with 115V mains voltage. Speak up soon!
Any discussion on an offboard transformer probably needs to happen before HYPERTUNE finalises any design. I am happy to follow his preference for cutting traces or not since his work on the enclosure design shouldn't be compromised by anyone else's preference but his own.
How much is the keratherm stencil dependent on the enclosure/heatsink? If we're having some heatsinking attached to underside of the board as in some of the suggestions then we'll need whatever TIM we chose to wrap around under the board also won't we?
nope, the keratherm white is higher performance afaik, but its not terribly practical as its very soft.
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