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Old 3rd January 2013, 01:21 PM   #231
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hi anton

thank you for the reply and thank you s3tup for the possibly very important point.

now i understand what the clock signal does but am just getting into dac and i/v operation - so please bear with me.

I have a sony xb 740 which seems close to xb 940 in the schematics/service manuals - i can provide these to you if you want. (940 has much more complicated audio path after dac out but otherwise are very much the same). the player has two chips one on the transport/drive and one on the processing board they both seem to use the crystal pictured in 1 & 2. I have just found a second crystal but this on the display driver board and does not have individual part number - i don't think this is important to audio.(pic 3)

i have attached snapshots of the dac and crystal listing in the manual - pic 1 &2 also pic 4 is camera shot of crystal in player.

P.S.
i am thinking of replacing the output section with a valve preamp and am starting to learn about dac current output + filtering + I/V conversion - but does anyone understand why this dac has 4 outputs per channel, i understand they give out balanced signals - this is very good and i intend to take advantage of this - but why pair the outputs ??

thanks for anyones time and input
james

xb740 dac.pdfxb740 crystal.pdfdisplay driver.pdfIMAG0128.jpg
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Old 4th January 2013, 10:10 AM   #232
amc184 is offline amc184  New Zealand
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I've had a look a the CDP-XB740, and it seems to use a fundamental mode 45.1584MHz crystal. It should be possible to take that crystal out of the player and install it into this clock, but I can't make any guarantees that it would work, I've not tested the clock at anything over 33.8688MHz. What test gear do you have? I wouldn't try this without an oscilloscope.
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Old 4th January 2013, 12:38 PM   #233
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Hi Anton

One question about crystal parts, I've noticed you prefer HC49 from Citizen.
Have you tried other good supplier ?
Second question concerns crystal pads. I've seen you use it in your built.
Using them is usefull to avoid crystal desoldering operation.
Where do you get that part, BTW which ref ?
Regards

Phil
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Old 4th January 2013, 02:19 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korben69 View Post
Hi Anton

One question about crystal parts, I've noticed you prefer HC49 from Citizen.
Have you tried other good supplier ?

Phil
Use the Citizen CSA309, cylinder type, if you can find one
CSA309-24.576MABJB Citizen | Mouser
It seems to have the best phase noise performance at low cost.
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Old 4th January 2013, 04:39 PM   #235
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hi anton

thanks alot for the reply.
i have not got an oscilloscope at the moment and have not got the funds for a proper one but... i have found small handheld ones on ebay - link below - will these do the job or is it just hong kong/chinese nastiness. i can solder/desolder quite well but have never needed to test at a level more than a multimeter.
Is the problem it may not work at all or is there harmonics/unstable signal problems that i do not know about/jet understand ?

thanks for being supportive

P.S. in regards to the question regarding the dac outputs is there anybody on this forum that you can suggest that i might talk to? (if you don't know yourself i do realise it's off topic in this thread)


ARM DSO Nano - Pocket-Sized Digital Oscilloscope New | eBay
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Old 4th January 2013, 07:20 PM   #236
amc184 is offline amc184  New Zealand
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@korben69: It's more about just finding a reputable manufacturer from who I can get of the shelf crystals in CD player frequencies. I've not compared crystals from other manufacturers.

I used this as a crystal socket. It worked well, while it probably adds some inductance I didn't experience anything adverse while using it.

@andrea_mori: Where did you find information that showed the CSA309 type to be better the the HC49?

@glowing vinyl: If I were pushing the limits of the clock, I'd want to have an oscilloscope. If you plug in the used 45.1584MHz crystal and it works, then great, but if it doesn't you'll be completely lost without a 'scope.

The portable version you linked to won't be useful for this application, it's far too slow. You're going to be looking at a 45MHz signal, so you're going to need something with quite a bit more bandwidth than that. Ideally 200MHz, 100MHz minimum. For cheap, you'd probably be better off with a used analog 'scope, something like this one (though I only had a quick look, you'll need to do your due diligence before you buy).

The output stage questions are a bit off topic here. Start a new thread in the Digital Source forum, you'll get better advice there.
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Old 4th January 2013, 10:36 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc184 View Post
@korben69: Where did you find information that showed the CSA309 type to be better the the HC49?
Hi Anthon,
Pat DiGiacomo (alias Jocko Homo) use the CSA309 in his ART LEGATO. he claims to reach -120dBc@10Hz phase noise. Since the CSA309 are out of production, he gave a try to the HC49 type, finding them a bit noisier.
He is a true guru in clock devices.
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Old 5th January 2013, 06:23 AM   #238
amc184 is offline amc184  New Zealand
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Okay, that's a worthwhile endorsement. I might give it a try sometime.
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Old 6th January 2013, 05:25 PM   #239
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea_mori View Post
Hi Anthon,
Pat DiGiacomo (alias Jocko Homo) use the CSA309 in his ART LEGATO. he claims to reach -120dBc@10Hz phase noise. Since the CSA309 are out of production, he gave a try to the HC49 type, finding them a bit noisier.
He is a true guru in clock devices.
So, You mean that I can get a -120 db at 10 hz osc for:

CSA309 11.2896MABJ-UB - CITIZEN AMERICA - CRYSTAL11.2896MHZ | Farnell United Kingdom

< 1/2 dollar?
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Old 6th January 2013, 07:07 PM   #240
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT View Post
So, You mean that I can get a -120 db at 10 hz osc for:

CSA309 11.2896MABJ-UB - CITIZEN AMERICA - CRYSTAL11.2896MHZ | Farnell United Kingdom

< 1/2 dollar?
OK... didn't think so

DIYHiFi.org &bull; View topic - Was "The Well Regulated Power Supply", now......?

....
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