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"Reference" TDA1541A DAC with I2S-BUS architecture

Surface Finish for future PCB´s

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M

Malka07

Member
Joined 2009
Hi everyone,

I received my transformer today and have wired everything up...i left it on for half an hour for voltages to stabilize then i set all voltages.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


However when i connected it all up...i got NO SOUND :(

These are the voltages im getting

Tube-i-zator
Anode = 150v
Heaters = 6.3

Dac Board
-15.3v
-5.1v
+5.2v
+5.5v (This shunt also supplies my Twisted Pair spdif/I2S board)

I have tried a number of different ways of connecting the twisted pair board.
on the output of twisted pair board there is Bck, Sck, LRCk, Dout, Gnd, Din
on the dac board i have Bck, Fs, Data.

Im assuming that Bck goes to Bck, LRCk goes to FS and Dout goes to Data?

HELP!!! im dying to get this thing working.

Alon
 
LucasAdamson

LucasAdamson

Member
Joined 2009
I think that you are barking up the right tree, thinking that the twisted pear unit connections are the problem. If you have voltage on the TDA chip legs (double check - right on the legs themselves as per the datasheet!!!), then frequencies on the TDA chip are the next thing to check, to confirm SPDIF outputs. Trace it all back from the TDA chip legs.

With the twisted pear unit connected to the source, find 44.1Khz on one of the outputs of the spdif unit - if you find it, that's your FS input on the DAC.

Also check for 2.82Mhz which is BCK on the DAC. That's easy enough with a multi-meter - set it to measure Hz - switch off shunt regs other than that powering the Twisted pear unit, so as not to fry your multimeter! So, with no power on the DAC board, test with red probe on outputs of SPDIF module and black on GND output of same terminal.

Then find DATA - this will usually have some Hz on there, fluctuating with the music, as the stream of data becomes intense in complicated passages and less intense during lulls. Dout sounds like a good bet for DATA to me.

On the Teradac X2 USB version, I have the following:

GND
MCLK
GND
LRCK
GND
DATA
GND
SCLK

I have just checked and it appears to be wired as follows:

DATA was obviously DATA
SCLK on Teralink was BCK on DAC (2.82Mhz - actually mine was not quite this figure, but close, perhaps DMM??)
LRCK on Teralink was FS on DAC (44.1Khz)

I hope that helps.

Lucas
 
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LucasAdamson

LucasAdamson

Member
Joined 2009
Also, one of my boards didn't work initially, and it was a headache. I checked all of the voltages on the chip and couldn't find the +5v digital. It turned out to be a dead coil - that black thing on the right hand side of the TDA board - it was dead from new or else I killed it soldering it. I had to trace the power along it's trace to verify the problem. So, check everything from the TDA board backwards! Then if you pass that test, the next thing is to check continuity with the buzzer function on the signal from the TDA out to the phono sockets, I guess.

GOOD LUCK BRO! Nearly there now!
 
dvb projekt

dvb projekt

Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Here the answer from Teradak about the X2 OS X connetion problem:

Hi,

I am sorry. We didn’t use the Mac OS, so I have no idea for it. We have asked the chip vendor, they said their chip can work in the Mac OS.
However, we didn’t test it in the Mac OS seriously. I don’t know whether your X2 issue is a software driver or hardware problem.
If you use external PSU, you may consider powering on the PSU first and then plugging into the USB socket.
Click to expand...
:cannotbe:
 
LucasAdamson

LucasAdamson

Member
Joined 2009
OK, so we know the chip works with the mac OS, as we're using it.

In a way, a downloadable driver is better, sitting on the computer hard-drive and selected already in System preferences, as the computer doesn't need to find the driver on the X2 chip each time it connects - it just streams out down the USB cable, whether the DAC is on or not, because you've selected that option. With this system, it has to detect the DAC's presence first.

Hmmm...what to try?
 
LucasAdamson

LucasAdamson

Member
Joined 2009
OK, so I tried a generic USB audio application, but it was awful - I couldn't get iTunes files to play at the right speed even, at any sample rate settings.

I have realised that with a particular 2m USB cable I have, if using USB or shunt reg power, it does recognise the X2 every time I plug USB in now, within 2 seconds. It's all down to the cable, I think, and it's ability to drive the signal containing the driver from the X2 to the computer. I wonder what's the best solution? A really expensive USB cable? A 4m cable? Move the sofa? 3.5m cable? Changing a component on the X2 to make it output a stronger signal?

Oliver, in Audio MIDI setup, for the X2, what settings do you use and why? I find that there is a noticeable difference in outputting 44.1Khz and 48Khz - 48 is much better in my opinion. 44.1Khz seems to put artefacts of distortion on the edges of sounds, and 48 is slightly smoother, so thank you for alerting me to that, but I am curious - is this not the computer performing an oversampling operation? Also, do you set it to 2Ch-16bit or 2Ch-24bit? Again, I find 24 bit to be nicer, fuller and richer, but it is very close - not much in it.
 
M

Malka07

Member
Joined 2009
Hi Lucas,

Thank you very much for your suggestions :)

I have already tried to take frequency measurements from the output of the twisted pair board...but with no luck. But this was with all shunts connected...would this make a difference?

I will try and work my way back from tda1541a, checking voltages as you suggested...just incase something isnt working on the dac board.

This is just a thought but...in the twisted pair manual...it recommends having 7.5v input(there is a 3.5 volt regulator on board)...i only have 5.5v...do you think this could be the problem?

Alon
 
LucasAdamson

LucasAdamson

Member
Joined 2009
Malka07 said:
Hi Lucas,

Thank you very much for your suggestions :)
Click to expand...

No worries. I want you to get it up and running and read your happy reaction.

I have already tried to take frequency measurements from the output of the twisted pair board...but with no luck. But this was with all shunts connected...would this make a difference?
Click to expand...

Well, if your DMM hasn't blown a fuse due to the volts, which are usually not recommended on this function of the DMM (can be checked with something else, like CD player digital out, for example) then it should be fairly easy to find them. If you can't, then that's your problem right there, and you can forget checking from the TDA backwards - in this scenario it's the SPDIF module for sure.

I will try and work my way back from tda1541a, checking voltages as you suggested...just incase something isnt working on the dac board.

This is just a thought but...in the twisted pair manual...it recommends having 7.5v input(there is a 3.5 volt regulator on board)...i only have 5.5v...do you think this could be the problem?

Alon
Click to expand...

You could try a new 9v battery or other 7.5v source (of any quality for now - doesn't need to be audio grade really) for your test procedure, just to eliminate that possibility for now. The 3.5v regulator will just get a touch hotter, but should enjoy the extra voltage if anything.
My experience with something related and similar is on the DAC board itself, when I originally fed a TL431 shunt reg under 5v from the Salas shunt reg. The DAC was silent at first and then eventually sound came out, but horrendously distorted. I checked the shunt output and it was 4.8v. I guess warming up it had been even less than that, hence no sound at all. Bringing it up just .2v to 5v solved it, but I have since removed all TL431s and have no regrets, other than aesthetically. If I still had them in there, I would personally run them at least 2v over their output to be honest, but that's another story.

I hope that helps
Lucas

P.s. Scratch that about the battery - just crank the relevant Salas shunt up to 7v DC - the TL431 on the DAC board will regulate so that the TDA1541A still only gets 5v, so it's not dangerous in the least.
 
Last edited:
M

Malka07

Member
Joined 2009
Malka07 said:
This is just a thought but...in the twisted pair manual...it recommends having 7.5v input(there is a 3.5 volt regulator on board)...i only have 5.5v...do you think this could be the problem?
Alon
Click to expand...

Just tried connecting a battery to the spdif board...got exactly the same result.

At spdif input of dac when i measure frequency...it works frequency changes around as music is being played...but at output...this is what i get.

Din=0.050 Gnd=0 Dout=0 LRCk=0 Sck=0.050 Bck=0

Either my spdif board is not working...or im not selecting the correct setting on the dip switch?

Alon
 
dvb projekt

dvb projekt

Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
LucasAdamson said:
Oliver, in Audio MIDI setup, for the X2, what settings do you use and why? I find that there is a noticeable difference in outputting 44.1Khz and 48Khz - 48 is much better in my opinion. 44.1Khz seems to put artefacts of distortion on the edges of sounds, and 48 is slightly smoother, so thank you for alerting me to that, but I am curious - is this not the computer performing an oversampling operation? Also, do you set it to 2Ch-16bit or 2Ch-24bit? Again, I find 24 bit to be nicer, fuller and richer, but it is very close - not much in it.
Click to expand...

I have set it to 2ch-16bit / 48KHz. The advice to feed it with 48KHz comes from regal, a member on the head-fi.org forum.
slim.a also member of this forum wrote a nice statement about that fact:

The Teralink-X2 has only ONE clock. It is 12 mhz and so it is a perfect multiple of 48khz and 96khz.

When the Teralink X-2 receives 44.1 data, it has to derive/generate a 44.1 clock from the 12mhz clock. When doing so, it generates a lot of amount of jitter.

So let's suppose for one instant and that you got your hand on a rubidium clock that has a vanishingly low level of jitter. That accuracy of the clock would be pointless on the Teralink-X2 since the 44.1 clock (not data) has to be generated through a PLL. The jitter will be equal to that of the PLL. So whether you have a 0.0001 ps clock or a 1ps clock, most jitter will be generated by the PLL and not by the clock itself.
So the weakest link in the Teralink-X2 is probably the PLL and not the clock itself.

Also, keep in mind that since the Teralink-X2 is an adaptive usb model (and not async), its master clock is the one used in the computer and not the one inside the teralink. While putting a better clock might help. It is not the same as putting a higher quality clock on an async device where the devices use their internal clocks as master clocks.

So to sump up, Regal idea to upsample data to 48 or 96khz is an excellent idea (if the upsampler is transparent enough). It would get rid of the jittery generating of the 44.1 clock.
Click to expand...

:cheers:
 
LucasAdamson

LucasAdamson

Member
Joined 2009
That dip switch is another mightily impossible thing to set right without very clear instructions, I would have thought...Maybe Twisted Pear need to advise there.

Did you see my edit in the last post:

"P.s. Scratch that about the battery - just crank the relevant Salas shunt up to 7v DC - the TL431 on the DAC board will regulate so that the TDA1541A still only gets 5v, so it's not dangerous in the least."
 
Last edited:
dvb projekt

dvb projekt

Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Malka07 said:
Just tried connecting a battery to the spdif board...got exactly the same result.

At spdif input of dac when i measure frequency...it works frequency changes around as music is being played...but at output...this is what i get.

Din=0.050 Gnd=0 Dout=0 LRCk=0 Sck=0.050 Bck=0

Either my spdif board is not working...or im not selecting the correct setting on the dip switch?

Alon
Click to expand...

Hi Alon,

try to set the "AIFCONF0" to "0". Thats the 16Bit I2S setting.
Twisted Pear set´s it to "1" for their DAC (24bit I2S setting).
 
LucasAdamson

LucasAdamson

Member
Joined 2009
Malka07 said:
Just a thought...but my other shunts for the analogue sections are running at
5.22v and -5.11v this was the max that i could get out of them. do you think that these voltages are high enough to regulate the tl431's?

Alon
Click to expand...

Borderline. I would run them at 7v - Oliver recommends 5.5v. I have had distinct and catastrophic problems at 4.9v, so...

Why can't you get them higher though? Seems very odd. :confused:
 
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