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Old 29th July 2011, 12:37 PM   #721
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Iwata with Tad 4001 and 1601.
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Old 29th July 2011, 12:41 PM   #722
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Originally Posted by doug20 View Post
Have you seen the measurements for the TAD 2" CDs....those are the best period when it comes to 2" CDs. The BMS 4590 is also a great 2" choices.

IMO, the IWATA-300 deserves a 2" CD. Its pointless to have a large horn and not XO it below 500Hz. 2" CDs give us a lower XO point. If someone has a hard on for directivity > 10KHz then they can add a super tweeter or similar.

Its all choice, there are 1000s of JBL screen array systems with 2" CDs used for HF and all my testing so far with the TADs tell me that for me there simply isnt enough difference > 10KHz vs my Ribbon design for me to fuss over. Im loving the TADs but now I have make sure the BMS 4590s are good.
I think we're pretty much on the same page. When I do a horn or waveguide, I basically give myself four options:
  • Option one : Use a small compression driver, and cover four octaves from 1500hz to 24khz. BMS 4540ND and Celestion CDX1-1425 can do this.
  • Option two: Use a large compression driver, and cover four octaves from 1000hz to 16000hz.
  • Option three: Bite the bullet and spend two thousand bucks on compression drivers, and cover five octaves, from 500hz to 16khz, with a TAD

Basically my point is that I see a lot of posts here (and also on the car audio forums) where people are trying to eke out five octaves with compression drivers that cost $150. It sounds like a viable goal, but I've never seen it done in the real world, at least not without using a compression driver with a MSRP of $1000

Of course, I should listen to my own advice, and stop trying to do it myself lol (I've tried to pull off this hat trick at least a dozen times, with various horns, waveguides, and compression drivers.)

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Old 29th July 2011, 12:43 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
Iwata with Tad 4001 and 1601.
that looks imposing! Nice work.
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Old 29th July 2011, 01:39 PM   #724
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
Iwata with Tad 4001 and 1601.
Very nice!!

Im hoping my TAD 4001/Iwata + JBL 2226s will look even 50% as good
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Old 29th July 2011, 01:40 PM   #725
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post


I think we're pretty much on the same page. When I do a horn or waveguide, I basically give myself four options:
  • Option one : Use a small compression driver, and cover four octaves from 1500hz to 24khz. BMS 4540ND and Celestion CDX1-1425 can do this.
  • Option two: Use a large compression driver, and cover four octaves from 1000hz to 16000hz.
  • Option three: Bite the bullet and spend two thousand bucks on compression drivers, and cover five octaves, from 500hz to 16khz, with a TAD

Basically my point is that I see a lot of posts here (and also on the car audio forums) where people are trying to eke out five octaves with compression drivers that cost $150. It sounds like a viable goal, but I've never seen it done in the real world, at least not without using a compression driver with a MSRP of $1000

Of course, I should listen to my own advice, and stop trying to do it myself lol (I've tried to pull off this hat trick at least a dozen times, with various horns, waveguides, and compression drivers.)

Great points!! Although I would recommend not running the CDX-1425 below 2KHz, if 1500Hz is needed then use the CDX-1745 instead its a better CD for almost the same cost. There will still be some people that also think the TAD TD-4001 isnt good enough above 10KHz, hence they add supertweeters. Im not one of those people and happy not to spend even more $$$


I have the TAD TD-2001 too and it can go low but not < 500Hz. I need to see what it could do in the SEOS-18 (If I ever get my hands on one).

Last edited by doug20; 29th July 2011 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 29th July 2011, 02:34 PM   #726
Gluca is offline Gluca  Italy
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Originally Posted by doug20 View Post
There will still be some people that also think the TAD TD-4001 isnt good enough above 10KHz, hence they add supertweeters. Im not one of those people and happy not to spend even more $$$


I have the TAD TD-2001 too and it can go low but not < 500Hz. I need to see what it could do in the SEOS-18 (If I ever get my hands on one).
I am running TD-4001 into Iwata 300 and yes they extend up to 18kHz but somehow those hi freqs may sound odds with some music and OK with other. I switched in/out a tweeter by fostex and I found that on certain occasions/records it was better to cut the 4001 at 5k and let the tweeter take over from there. I am in love with 4001 but I will be using a 2001 to cover the top end from 3-4k on a small 1k JMLC horn.
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Old 29th July 2011, 03:37 PM   #727
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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I have thought about that! There was a sweet looking but very small waveguide in the group buy pictures. I have also thought about a waveguide loaded ribbon recently. See discussions in the geddes waveguide thread about some waveguide loaded ribbons that exist now at madisound.

Of course my horn choices are only for high end home theater. All my critical music listening still comes from my ribbon choices or quality headphones.
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Old 29th July 2011, 03:54 PM   #728
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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The JBL 2445 does 400 Hz quite easily. I'm running it on a large paper mache horn and it covers 400 Hz to 10 kHz with +-5db. It sounds drop-dead gorgeous too! Effortless, smooth, natural!

Building John's Paper Mache Horns
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Old 29th July 2011, 03:59 PM   #729
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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I didn't think the JBL 2445 sounded as good as the BMS 4590 or TAD TD-4001 in my tests. It definitely does 400Hz but it drops off drastically up high compared to the other two 2" CDs I have. Its definitely a popular CD with JBL fans and I read comments all the time about their performance but > 8KHz is where they fall behind IMO

Heck, I wish it did sound great considering 2 of them cost me $200 while my BMS and TAD 2" choices each cost > $1K and > $2K per pair.

I still want to get some Wavelet analysis done with all 3 CD models.
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Old 29th July 2011, 04:06 PM   #730
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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Well, extension is not that big of a deal considering any 2" driver is pretty much beaming by the time it hits 8k. If your horn is going to start at 400 Hz, there is no way it can maintain directivity up high. In my opinion, the final choice should be based on how well it can do the 400 Hz - 8 kHz range.

I heard a TAD 1" CD on a similar horn and the JBL 2" was beating the pants off the TAD driver. But that is understandable probably, given the larger size of the JBL.
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