OK guys I love all your horns. Great Great work But it time to make a multi cell for the masses. I want a big long 200hz multi cell. 2 part casting I guess. Even just a single row of 5 cells slow opening. Made light so we can either sand fill or epoxy fill on assembly. Leaving the throat clear so we can reinforce with cf as the throats have to be really hard in my opinion. Is why altec used brass throats. Even a horn with vanes would be a compromise. Cmon make my dreams come true. And totally ruin all the vintage multi cell horn hoarders crasy prices that I cant afford. There is just no economical solutions to multi cells out there in the market. They would cell like hotcakes. Not that I have ever bought or sold hot cakes.
Then when you done that make a WE31a copy with slightly narrower profile for stereo. Another big seller.
Then when you done that make a WE31a copy with slightly narrower profile for stereo. Another big seller.
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Hello Jack,
The polar map normalized on axis (as it is with both the 200Hz Le Cléac'h horn and the 200Hz Tractrix horn) should not depends neither on frequency windows neither on mormalization.
Or there is something you have to explain...
And as we can see on your graph:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...341918-waveguides-horns-tractrix_jmlc_dir.png
the problem I mentionned (increased directivity of the Tractix below 1800Hz) will not be removed by any normaliztion...
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
The polar map normalized on axis (as it is with both the 200Hz Le Cléac'h horn and the 200Hz Tractrix horn) should not depends neither on frequency windows neither on mormalization.
Or there is something you have to explain...
And as we can see on your graph:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...341918-waveguides-horns-tractrix_jmlc_dir.png
the problem I mentionned (increased directivity of the Tractix below 1800Hz) will not be removed by any normaliztion...
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Last edited:
+1
a perfect horn for getting low crossover points with a number of vintage CDs (vitavox, altec) without stressing the driver too much
a dream come true
Horn loaded AMT
A new horn loaded AMT design.
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http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/171441-hornloading-heil-amt1-12.html
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A new horn loaded AMT design.
.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/171441-hornloading-heil-amt1-12.html
.
Attachments
Sorry for the Delay and the answer is yes and no. Yes multi cells but just 1 row of 5 cells would do. Better dispersion and less beaming then the round horns. Lower fc with room to fit tweeters horns in on top and bass horns in on bottom. I realize a full multi cell would be too hard to cast. But for big rooms there the ultimate.
Western Electric 31A Horn
BTW the klangfilms are cool but I am not sure what advantage they would be as your modern horns are Superior. The multi cell and 31a have something that your current horns can not offer. Dispersion and a lower fc. Vital for good vocal reproduction. You try get that low a fc in a round horn and it so big its beaming and too big to mount a tweeter next too. This is where the multi cells and 31a's excel and why imperfect old vintage examples sell for huge amounts of money on ebay.
Multicells
Gday for auditoriums they really are the only way to go but multi cell's work well down to quiet small rooms. In fact multicells are the best solution in small rooms.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/136964-construction-multicell-horn.html
This thread on building a pair if you follow it through you will see his room isn't that big. But you will all see why people don't build them themselves. There just too hard. They throw the midrange around and give you such a big spacious image. But as I mentioned whats most important is there low fc which is so important with vocals. And this is where a multi cell can excel in a small room where a round horn with the same fc cant. You can get the horns together which is so important. It escapes what you call it. I no expert I am just learning myself. For the past 6 months I have been trying to designed a horn system for a small room.(my bedroom) But I want for my daughter and I to watch TV in bed so trattrix are not suitable not only that you cant them get close enough to combine. There is another solution is the aria type horn. But there very difficult to build too.
Wood Horn
This horn is a derivative of a multi cell. But the fc is still too high to get that all important vocal range.
There is a trade off of this sort of horn. It loss of depth and stereo separation. But for any other type of listening other then single person head clamping. multi cell is the go.
This is why in my opinion standard 2 ways horn systems fail so miserably. Your relying on the cone driver to reproduce the lower mid and combine with upper mid horn . It doesn't work. Multi cells and the West Electric 31 where designed for pa to do vocals on there own. Thats why they excell.
The western electric 31a its has the same strengths as the big multi cells. It has a low fc and yes unfortunately the bend is important. It's part of the design that disperses the sound and it all so a massive advantage as you get a long horn that will fit in a shorter area and you can combine it with short bass horns time alignment wise. It's one flaw is its really made for mono so it does throw very wide. You will issues with hitting wall and lack of stage depth. A perfect horn for home theater where you want the whole family to hear it. My father had a set of altec multi cells in his lounge room that wasn't big BTW. And the sound would fill the whole room. Beautiful sound never forget it. Trust me you have to try design a set.
Like I said even if you have simplify them a lot and reduce the cell count. As you reduce the cell count you improve the stereo focus and still maintain the lower fc and tight vertical spacing. Vitovox for eg made a 3 cell. Altec made a long throw 2 cell. If you where to make them with plastic just like the article up above he used very thin weak wood. He just filled it with plastibond afterwoulds. You could make them very light to ship and have them easy filled with plastibond or sand or anything you like. I am confident they would be the most successful horn you will build. There is a huge demand for such a horn. The custom wood ones on the market sell for 2k and above and most are poor quality and the vintage up to 10k. Goto unit make them don't even ask how much. I am not an audiophile I don't want clamp my head in one place my neck is too worn out to do such a thing anyway.
Of course to avoid these issues with trattrix and the like. The solution is to have many chanels say 5 and 6 Chanel systems with lot of of horns but these don't work in small rooms. So please please consider working on a multi cell or a 31 style horn. A idea with the 31 a would be to narrow it's dispersion a little for stereo use. In Korea there is a few company's casting 31a copy's I have been so tempted to buy a pair but it would leave me broke. This week I am thinking I am going to blow my budget on a table saw so I can make my own bass horns and speakers. As they say give a man a fish he eats for a week give a man a table saw he builds horns for life lol. Something like that. But I can tell you I am not building multi cells it up to you guys.
Gday for auditoriums they really are the only way to go but multi cell's work well down to quiet small rooms. In fact multicells are the best solution in small rooms.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/136964-construction-multicell-horn.html
This thread on building a pair if you follow it through you will see his room isn't that big. But you will all see why people don't build them themselves. There just too hard. They throw the midrange around and give you such a big spacious image. But as I mentioned whats most important is there low fc which is so important with vocals. And this is where a multi cell can excel in a small room where a round horn with the same fc cant. You can get the horns together which is so important. It escapes what you call it. I no expert I am just learning myself. For the past 6 months I have been trying to designed a horn system for a small room.(my bedroom) But I want for my daughter and I to watch TV in bed so trattrix are not suitable not only that you cant them get close enough to combine. There is another solution is the aria type horn. But there very difficult to build too.
Wood Horn
This horn is a derivative of a multi cell. But the fc is still too high to get that all important vocal range.
There is a trade off of this sort of horn. It loss of depth and stereo separation. But for any other type of listening other then single person head clamping. multi cell is the go.
This is why in my opinion standard 2 ways horn systems fail so miserably. Your relying on the cone driver to reproduce the lower mid and combine with upper mid horn . It doesn't work. Multi cells and the West Electric 31 where designed for pa to do vocals on there own. Thats why they excell.
The western electric 31a its has the same strengths as the big multi cells. It has a low fc and yes unfortunately the bend is important. It's part of the design that disperses the sound and it all so a massive advantage as you get a long horn that will fit in a shorter area and you can combine it with short bass horns time alignment wise. It's one flaw is its really made for mono so it does throw very wide. You will issues with hitting wall and lack of stage depth. A perfect horn for home theater where you want the whole family to hear it. My father had a set of altec multi cells in his lounge room that wasn't big BTW. And the sound would fill the whole room. Beautiful sound never forget it. Trust me you have to try design a set.
Like I said even if you have simplify them a lot and reduce the cell count. As you reduce the cell count you improve the stereo focus and still maintain the lower fc and tight vertical spacing. Vitovox for eg made a 3 cell. Altec made a long throw 2 cell. If you where to make them with plastic just like the article up above he used very thin weak wood. He just filled it with plastibond afterwoulds. You could make them very light to ship and have them easy filled with plastibond or sand or anything you like. I am confident they would be the most successful horn you will build. There is a huge demand for such a horn. The custom wood ones on the market sell for 2k and above and most are poor quality and the vintage up to 10k. Goto unit make them don't even ask how much. I am not an audiophile I don't want clamp my head in one place my neck is too worn out to do such a thing anyway.
Of course to avoid these issues with trattrix and the like. The solution is to have many chanels say 5 and 6 Chanel systems with lot of of horns but these don't work in small rooms. So please please consider working on a multi cell or a 31 style horn. A idea with the 31 a would be to narrow it's dispersion a little for stereo use. In Korea there is a few company's casting 31a copy's I have been so tempted to buy a pair but it would leave me broke. This week I am thinking I am going to blow my budget on a table saw so I can make my own bass horns and speakers. As they say give a man a fish he eats for a week give a man a table saw he builds horns for life lol. Something like that. But I can tell you I am not building multi cells it up to you guys.