Waveguides and horns - Page 103 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Commercial Sector > Group Buys

Group Buys Members group buys

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th March 2012, 11:13 PM   #1021
phusis is offline phusis  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Odense
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
Radian 950PB Truextent in JMLC-200T.
Would you say, by ear, that the Radian driver in JMLC-200T is suitable and "sufficient" sounding in its entire frequency span from ~300Hz and upwards, or does it feel notably restricted in its HF response? The curve indicates a rather rapid fall above 10kHz..

It would be an impressive feat to have one driver/diaphragm cover the entire and remaining frequency range from 300Hz and up in an audibly satisfying fashion, without any x-overs here..
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 12:29 AM   #1022
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
Compared to 4590.
Can you show the directivity of the 4590? Thanks!
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 07:24 AM   #1023
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Szczecin
Send a message via Skype™ to jzagaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by phusis View Post
Would you say, by ear, that the Radian driver in JMLC-200T is suitable and "sufficient" sounding in its entire frequency span from ~300Hz and upwards, or does it feel notably restricted in its HF response? The curve indicates a rather rapid fall above 10kHz
Radian Truextent does not have a sparkle of 4590 and need supertweeter. I would stick with 1.4" drivers and waveguide for highest HF energy, waiting for beryllium 18sound driver. Otherwise Radian Truextent alone will be very relaxing on EJMLC-300.

4590 directivity can be found here:
Horns
__________________
Visit us at http://www.horns.pl/
The SEOS™ Project http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/he...-rallying-here
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 08:02 AM   #1024
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally Posted by phusis View Post
Would you say, by ear, that the Radian driver in JMLC-200T is suitable and "sufficient" sounding in its entire frequency span from ~300Hz and upwards, or does it feel notably restricted in its HF response? The curve indicates a rather rapid fall above 10kHz..

It would be an impressive feat to have one driver/diaphragm cover the entire and remaining frequency range from 300Hz and up in an audibly satisfying fashion, without any x-overs here..
Horns are a low pass filter.
Trying to find a compression driver and horn that will cover six octaves is like trying to find a unicorn.

This is the whole reason I've built a dozen Unity horns. It is the only practical solution to the problem you are trying to solve.

I don't mean this to sound harsh - believe me I wish there was a horn and compression driver that could do six octaves without breaking a sweat.

  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 01:46 PM   #1025
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Hi John

Such a bandwidth is not theoretically impossible, I could do it, but what are the goals and what kinds of tradeoffs would be acceptable?

By the way, a nhorn is a high pass filter, not a low pass one.

To get good directivity control to 300 Hz would require a mouth size of about three feet or more. The driver would have to give up a lot of efficiency to go as low as 300 Hz and this would seriously degrade the MaxSPL such a system could achieve without overloading the device. But it could be done. A 1" throat with a heavy berylimum diaphram could do it - lots of magnet and limited turns (for low inductance). It would need a non-metal surrpound to get down to 300 Hz and the excursion down that low would limit its MaxSPL.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 02:33 PM   #1026
Jmmlc is offline Jmmlc  France
R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Hello,

An answer

Horns

(unequalized response curves)

See also how the responses between -15° and +15° mimics the power response!

Best regards from Paris, France

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h


Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Hi John

Such a bandwidth is not theoretically impossible,.

To get good directivity control to 300 Hz would require a mouth size of about three feet or more. .
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 04:28 PM   #1027
phusis is offline phusis  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Odense
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post


Horns are a low pass filter.
Trying to find a compression driver and horn that will cover six octaves is like trying to find a unicorn.

This is the whole reason I've built a dozen Unity horns. It is the only practical solution to the problem you are trying to solve.

I don't mean this to sound harsh - believe me I wish there was a horn and compression driver that could do six octaves without breaking a sweat.

Thanks for your respons, Mr. "Bateman" - which I didn't see in any way harsh. As mentioned earlier I'm a non-techie into this field, and my somehow naive questioning or replies may at times (subconsciously) be meant to "provoke" a corrective or otherwise illuminating remark from the ones in the know - now that I am not.

Within these limitations of mine there are still some markers I'd like to go by, such as trying not to stray too far from one point source per channel(which in effect means two per channel, if we rule out coaxials/full range units) as well as an overall goal to maintain simplicity, and from what I'm able to gather it's fully possible to have a horn/waveguide cover five octaves in an audibly satisfying manner - without, I presume, having to resort to huge mouth openings as suggested by Mr. Geddes.

Of course, what is "audibly satisfying"? What it is to some it mayn't be to others. I'm aware there are likely trade-off's wanting not to go beyond two point sources per channel, but to my mind the pro's in this case far outweigh the con's.

The question in my search right now seems to revolve around whether there are some clear benefits to be had from large-coil(3-4 inch.) diameter compression drivers covering the lower-lower central mids versus a 12-15 inch bass/mid driver covering this same area in "joint venture" upwards with a smaller coil-diameter(typically no more than 1 3/4 inch) compression driver. It seems, to my ears, the large coil comp. drivers provide a benefit in this very important area, as well as into the central mids, but then HF response is hampered. The BMS 4590/4592 then comes to mind as a possible solution, but that means having another cross-over to work around - albeit at a higher frequency, around 6-7kHz? Perhaps a x-over this high doesn't pose a serious issue? In any case, I'd rather try and maintain point source performance in the mids-highs and suffer ultimate HF response or another x-over(BMS 4590/4592) to deal with, instead of going with a third point source per side - apart from one or more subs perhaps.

It's not that I'm oblivious to other very important aspects of the horns and waveguides themselves, but the horns from Auto-tech(as I'm sure others; also the ones that've been an inspiration to AT) seem to be able to "bridge" some of my concerns into actual solutions, which has then re-directed my focus to the drivers.

I'd very much like to hear of the experience from others in this regard!

Last edited by phusis; 14th March 2012 at 04:55 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 04:51 PM   #1028
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Szczecin
Send a message via Skype™ to jzagaja
Crossover for SEOS-10 Flatpack ready for voicing. Time to make large Flatpack (JBL Everest style) for 1.4" drivers.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Front-10-4.gif (37.2 KB, 470 views)
__________________
Visit us at http://www.horns.pl/
The SEOS™ Project http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/he...-rallying-here

Last edited by jzagaja; 14th March 2012 at 04:55 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 08:22 PM   #1029
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Szczecin
Send a message via Skype™ to jzagaja
In a nutshell (DE250+10CL51+SEOS-10 Flatpack) - reference mid and highs, perfect blend, high sensitivity, bright airy powerful but no sibilance, requires sub (Rythmik?). I want one
__________________
Visit us at http://www.horns.pl/
The SEOS™ Project http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/he...-rallying-here
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2012, 08:26 PM   #1030
phusis is offline phusis  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Odense
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
In a nutshell (DE250+10CL51+SEOS-10 Flatpack) - reference mid and highs, perfect blend, high sensitivity, bright airy powerful but no sibilance, requires sub (Rythmik?). I want one
Wow, sounds great Sonic impressions compared to Mumia 2 and Universe coax.? What will cost relative to Mumia be?

Perhaps a stupid question, but what does "Flatpack" refer to? Are there serious plans to make the larger "Flatpack" version you mentioned above?

Last edited by phusis; 14th March 2012 at 08:29 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
smith horns and using compression horns for a Karlson party speaker project bikehorn Multi-Way 14 30th January 2013 05:20 PM
Horns inside of horns open foe discussion oilcanracer Multi-Way 3 15th February 2010 03:42 AM
Compression drivers in horns or waveguides 454Casull Multi-Way 6 1st December 2008 12:41 PM
Phase plug necessity in horns/waveguides 454Casull Multi-Way 3 18th September 2005 07:36 PM
Horns: Vibrations and resonances in metal horns Rocky Multi-Way 10 28th July 2004 01:38 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:48 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2