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Old 5th May 2013, 05:51 PM   #811
noizas is offline noizas  Lithuania
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Default Zout of SRPP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom View Post
Very interesting conversation on impedence guys - reading with interest!

I think the recommended input voltage setting was 150...I am probably demonstrating my ignorance here but seeing as this tube's vmax is much higher, is there any sonic advantage to increasing the voltage?
Hi Crom,

voltage with 300VDC supply for SRPP means about 150VDC per tube, if you look to TubeCAD report I've attached to my previous message, you can see "DC results - V tube".

Low voltages means problems:
1. less anode to cathode voltage means higher plate resistance as well as lower transconductance;
2. low voltage per tube means lower linearity;
3. With only 75 VDC per tube we have limits on anode current flow - 2.5mA (for 12AX7) is not achievable because positive swing of output voltage will be more than voltage across tube - we would have no more A class operation here. Please look two reports attached for 150VDC power supply voltage.

As there is an intention to use this SRPP not only as amplification of voltage stage but also as output stage for DAC unit, low plate resistance is desired (lower Z out) as well as higher standing current (higher slew rate allows faster charge capacitances of interconnecting cables).

Anyway, in my opinion SRPP is not best solution to use it as output stage - it should be calculated and balanced for some certain load impedance.
For better understanding please look at John Broskie article here The Tube CAD Journal: How SRPP Pworks.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Test Report SRPP 12AX7 150V 2mA OK.pdf (8.7 KB, 27 views)
File Type: pdf Test Report SRPP 12AX7 150V 2_5mA WRONG.pdf (8.8 KB, 13 views)
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Old 7th May 2013, 05:47 AM   #812
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Exclamation FS: Mundorf Supreme silver/gold/oil 2.2F

Because of my output cap upgrade to the Duelund CAST caps, my previous Mundorf Supreme silver/gold/oil 2.2F caps are for sale.

If somebody is interested, please send me a PM.


Best regards,
Oliver



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Old 7th May 2013, 06:39 AM   #813
noizas is offline noizas  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvb-projekt View Post
Because of my output cap upgrade to the Duelund CAST caps, my previous Mundorf Supreme silver/gold/oil 2.2F caps are for sale.

If somebody is interested, please send me a PM.


Best regards,
Oliver



I have just sent you PM.

Best regards
Saulius
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Old 10th May 2013, 09:00 AM   #814
DQ828 is offline DQ828  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noizas View Post
Tube type (6N2P, ECC83, etc), Rk and voltage of power supply.
Also Rload (resistor which is loading output capacitor - if you have installed such thing).

There is attached report in PDF for 12AX7, at it's max current 2.5mA, 300V supply.
As you can see Zoutput is quite high - about 30K (if loaded with 1M Rload).
So this setup of SRPP has to be loaded with high input impedance pre-amplifier, at least 100K, better - more than 200K.
Hi
The RK resistors are 200R, I have to assume the tubes are receiving 150V that is whats measured at the PSU output.

The I/V resistors I am using are 32R

I am using the Full Music 12AX7 tubes, as to the RLoad I don't think there is such a think in this setup.

Last edited by DQ828; 10th May 2013 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 11th May 2013, 06:22 PM   #815
noizas is offline noizas  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DQ828 View Post
Hi
The RK resistors are 200R, I have to assume the tubes are receiving 150V that is whats measured at the PSU output.

The I/V resistors I am using are 32R

I am using the Full Music 12AX7 tubes, as to the RLoad I don't think there is such a think in this setup.
Hi DQ828,

your setup is quite OK - please look attached report from TubeCAD.
Standing current is about 1.5mA - normal for 12AX7, Zout is same level as 300VDC supply - about 30K.
30K Zout looks too high for me but if you use preamplifier or integrated amplifier with high impedance input and good exclusively low capacitance interconnect cables, that should be ok .

What else I can write - if you are happy with sound of your setup, do not look to any figures - it is only waste of time
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Test Report SRPP 12AX7 150V 1_5mA OK.pdf (8.7 KB, 25 views)
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Old 12th May 2013, 10:34 AM   #816
DQ828 is offline DQ828  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noizas View Post
Hi DQ828,

your setup is quite OK - please look attached report from TubeCAD.
Standing current is about 1.5mA - normal for 12AX7, Zout is same level as 300VDC supply - about 30K.
30K Zout looks too high for me but if you use preamplifier or integrated amplifier with high impedance input and good exclusively low capacitance interconnect cables, that should be ok .

What else I can write - if you are happy with sound of your setup, do not look to any figures - it is only waste of time
The TubeIzator is feeding a (2 actually) Linkwitz ASP crossover before the amps & apparently the Input impedance of the ASP's is 10K

But as you say they sound fine . I have noticed that the volume is lower using the Tube output against the IVY.

Thank you for doing that.

Would it be worth putting some sort of buffer between the Tubeizator & the ASP's?

Last edited by DQ828; 12th May 2013 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 12th May 2013, 03:01 PM   #817
noizas is offline noizas  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DQ828 View Post
The TubeIzator is feeding a (2 actually) Linkwitz ASP crossover before the amps & apparently the Input impedance of the ASP's is 10K

But as you say they sound fine . I have noticed that the volume is lower using the Tube output against the IVY.

Thank you for doing that.

Would it be worth putting some sort of buffer between the Tubeizator & the ASP's?
Hi DQ828

yes, buffer can fix problem with low damping factor of your connection, as well as can increase capability to drive longer interconnect cables.
As many audiophiles can say - As result you would have better trebles and 3D image .

If talk seriously, you can simply add current buffer after Tubeizator.
But in that case you will add one more capacitor in signal path.

If you have place in your DAC, you can make any of follower, one of such is Aikido cathode follower (ACF, by John Broskie, please look ACF-2 Aikido Cathode Follower Kit.
In ACF buffer you can use any of medium amplification tubes, which are compatible with this PCB.
With such buffer stage you can easily achieve less than 1K Zout, so it can easily drive 10K load.

If necessary to avoid one more capacitor in signal path, I would remove Tubeizator and replace it with SRPP+current buffer stage.
But this idea sounds like offtopic here, in Tubeizator group buy forum , so for more help you would better PM me.

Saulius
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Old 31st May 2013, 10:19 PM   #818
Crom is offline Crom  United Kingdom
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Can anyone point me to a wiring diagram that shows me how to wire the output of 2 buffalo IIIse in dual Mono mode to 2 tube-I-zators so that I end up with balanced xlr outputs from the tube-I-zators. I'm sure Pinocchio and a few others have been there before me but I can't for the life of me find one to follow!!

I've been reading the integration guide on the twisted pear site but I'm not getting v far.

Thanks guys,
crom
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Old 1st June 2013, 01:25 AM   #819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom View Post
Can anyone point me to a wiring diagram that shows me how to wire the output of 2 buffalo IIIse in dual Mono mode to 2 tube-I-zators so that I end up with balanced xlr outputs from the tube-I-zators. I'm sure Pinocchio and a few others have been there before me but I can't for the life of me find one to follow!!

I've been reading the integration guide on the twisted pear site but I'm not getting v far.

Thanks guys,
crom
Hi Crom,

Here's a picture that will help you. BIII has the same connectors due to compatibility with TPA I/V stage.

Click the image to open in full size.

Use one Tube-I-Zator per BIII. Use the differential + phase on each side as per my yellow arrows. Let me know if you need more help.

You will also need to experiment with different I/V resistors to find what suits your needs the best soundwise.

Ciao!
Do
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Old 1st June 2013, 08:48 AM   #820
Crom is offline Crom  United Kingdom
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Thanks Pinnocchio, that's really helpful!!! ;-)

For anyone else who needs it, I just found this diagram that Oliver posted a while back: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...bii-ivyiii.pdf

Soldering iron is at the ready...I'm going in!
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