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Old 3rd November 2014, 06:35 PM   #1
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Default The all new NA12

I have just shipped the first pair of NA12's. The data for this system can be seen at my website.

Please note that this system is "passive". There are a lot of very smooth speakers out there these days thanks to DSP, but DSP is not a solution without its limitations. It isn't viable for many people. I know of no other passive crossover speaker that comes anywhere close to the performance of the NA12 (The new NS15 is active). This puts this speaker in a class all its own for those who prefer not to go active.
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Old 5th November 2014, 05:56 AM   #2
subwoofery is offline subwoofery  United States
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Other than the 1dB more sensitivity and the higher freq extension, what does the new design have over the Abbey?

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Kelvin
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Old 27th January 2015, 01:30 PM   #3
dziemian is offline dziemian  Poland
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I would have the same question as Kelvin.

Dr Geddes, Is it possible to buy Minidsp unit and upload your files to go active with passive Abbeys I have?

Tomek
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Old 27th January 2015, 07:19 PM   #4
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by subwoofery View Post
Other than the 1dB more sensitivity and the higher freq extension, what does the new design have over the Abbey?

Thanks,
Kelvin
Hi Kevin - sorry to take so long responding. I did not see a notice that this thread had a response.

I think that the NS12 is very close to an active Abbey, but a bit better than the passive Abbey. It is a better choice if passive is a requirement, but otherwise an active Abbey is probably the better choice. The NS12 does have some aspects that may not show up well on the polar map, such as a much more rigid and well damped enclosure, and less weight.

Basically all my speakers are very close to each other with ever smaller improvements as the models go up. It takes more and more resources to drive out the last vestiges of error in the design so the prices go up more than the performance. There is no question that the sweet spot is the Abbey. The kit form is really a bargin when you compare it to the marketplace.
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Old 27th January 2015, 07:22 PM   #5
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by dziemian View Post
I would have the same question as Kelvin.

Dr Geddes, Is it possible to buy Minidsp unit and upload your files to go active with passive Abbeys I have?

Tomek
I don't make my active program publicly available. I could sell you a preprogrammed miniDSP, but that is risky since it assumes the latest DE-250 drivers, not older ones. So, if your speakers are older you would have to replace the compression drivers as well.
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Old 28th January 2015, 03:55 AM   #6
subwoofery is offline subwoofery  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Hi Kevin - sorry to take so long responding. I did not see a notice that this thread had a response.

I think that the NS12 is very close to an active Abbey, but a bit better than the passive Abbey. It is a better choice if passive is a requirement, but otherwise an active Abbey is probably the better choice. The NS12 does have some aspects that may not show up well on the polar map, such as a much more rigid and well damped enclosure, and less weight.

Basically all my speakers are very close to each other with ever smaller improvements as the models go up. It takes more and more resources to drive out the last vestiges of error in the design so the prices go up more than the performance. There is no question that the sweet spot is the Abbey. The kit form is really a bargin when you compare it to the marketplace.
Good to know

Thanks for the reply. It explains a lot.

Kelvin
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Old 30th January 2015, 09:57 AM   #7
dziemian is offline dziemian  Poland
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In reply to:
(...) I don't make my active program publicly available. I could sell you a preprogrammed miniDSP, but that is risky since it assumes the latest DE-250 drivers, not older ones. So, if your speakers are older you would have to replace the compression drivers as well.(...)


I have to check the CDs in my Abbeys for their version. I own a DEQX which basically does the same job as Minidsp. It would be also easier for me to arrange a Minidsp here and check if I like a change for the active route. Just remember that with Minidsp I would be limited to 24/96 files so no higher res or DSD files. I can try with my DEQX first. Is there anything I should know about the necesarry measurement. Have you performed your measurements on-axis or 22 degrees off axis as advised for listening. I know there is a hole on the frequency response when the speakers are on-axis. If my Deqx fixes that hole it would probably make it worse off-axis. Am I right?

Thanks,
Tomek
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Old 5th March 2015, 06:31 PM   #8
Richidoo is offline Richidoo  United States
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The all new NA12
Mr. Geddes, Is the NA12 using the same rigid polymer box material as used in the Abbey boxes?
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Old 5th March 2015, 06:54 PM   #9
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Yes, the material is the same, but it is 33% ticker and the construction is a little different to improve the structural damping.

Remember that the stiffness of a plate goes as the thickness squared so a 33% thicker plate is 1.33^2 times stiffer, nearly double.
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Last edited by gedlee; 5th March 2015 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 5th March 2015, 06:59 PM   #10
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dziemian View Post
In reply to:
(...) I don't make my active program publicly available. I could sell you a preprogrammed miniDSP, but that is risky since it assumes the latest DE-250 drivers, not older ones. So, if your speakers are older you would have to replace the compression drivers as well.(...)


I have to check the CDs in my Abbeys for their version. I own a DEQX which basically does the same job as Minidsp. It would be also easier for me to arrange a Minidsp here and check if I like a change for the active route. Just remember that with Minidsp I would be limited to 24/96 files so no higher res or DSD files. I can try with my DEQX first. Is there anything I should know about the necesarry measurement. Have you performed your measurements on-axis or 22 degrees off axis as advised for listening. I know there is a hole on the frequency response when the speakers are on-axis. If my Deqx fixes that hole it would probably make it worse off-axis. Am I right?

Thanks,
Tomek
Hi Tomek - missed this post before.

I do not use any single angle for setting up my crossovers. I look at the Directivity Index (DI) and the response to get the best compromise between these two measures, looking for a flat/smooth DI and a slightly falling SPL response, optimized for angles between 15 and 25 degrees.

Yes, optimizing for a flat response along any one axis will definitely degrade the sound quality of one of my designs.
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